Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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15-03-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 12:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 07:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  Precisely. It's called Human Rights.

The Pope is the Human and he's got the Rights - to tell the rest of us what to do Dodgy Poor ol' Petrov can't understand why we're not rushing to sign up as minions.

Yeah, you're right, I'd much rather suck the UN and NATO's collective cocks by invading literally everyone that refuses to follow the Human Right's Declaration....except for the superpowers that can actually fight back. They always get a free pass for some, strange reason. Wonder why that is?

Also, the Pope isn't God. He has restrictions on what he can and can't do, or can and can't order other people to do.
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15-03-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 07:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 02:13 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Which is exactly my point. You're problem isn't with whether the content is right or not, your problem is just with them telling you what to do.

Precisely. It's called Human Rights.

Which is why Human Rights is wrong.....also, how the hell is Human Rights not an act of ordering people to do certain things?
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15-03-2015, 06:19 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 07:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 02:06 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  His own writings.

For example?

Pretty much any of them.
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15-03-2015, 06:20 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 06:16 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 07:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  Precisely. It's called Human Rights.

Which is why Human Rights is wrong.....also, how the hell is Human Rights not an act of ordering people to do certain things?

It's not allowing someone to do something to you that you don't want done. Not an order but a prevention.
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15-03-2015, 06:23 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 06:20 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 06:16 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Which is why Human Rights is wrong.....also, how the hell is Human Rights not an act of ordering people to do certain things?

It's not allowing someone to do something to you that you don't want done. Not an order but a prevention.

An order to prevent is still an order.
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15-03-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 09:30 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 09:13 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  I don't define 'freedom' as anything, as I don't think 'freedom', in and idealistic sense, exists as anything more than a piece of empty rhetoric that's meaning changes with the person/organization using the term.

Americans define freedom as being free from the influence of religion, free market, ect. Muslims define freedom as being free from the act or influence of sin. Communists define freedom as being free from the (supposedly) artificial constructs of inequality and hierarchy. None of them are wrong, as freedom as they all describe it is all being free of something, albeit different things for each ideology.

Mark it, dude.

I'ma give you points for that response. There's a lot of insight there that I can agree with, however that insight leads me to a different set of conclusions about reality than it does for you, obviously. That's what I'm digging at.

Or do we both reach the same conclusion from the opposite end? Is my nihilism the same as your ultimate obligation? Are we that weighed down by mankind's instinct to shit on each other? Is there not any room for us to choose who we are or how we should exist?

What is the reason......what is the gain for God in creating our reality/existence?

Quote:Is my nihilism the same as your ultimate obligation?

Well, nihilism, is, by definition, a worldview in which no obligations exist, whatsoever, so, no, I don't think you could say they're the same.

Quote:Are we that weighed down by mankind's instinct to shit on each other?

Well, it 'is' a pretty weighty instinct.

Quote:Is there not any room for us to choose who we are or how we should exist?

Within certain limitations, yes there is. I'm sure you already know what those limitations are for me.

Quote:What is the reason......what is the gain for God in creating our reality/existence?

I really don't know. I don't think anybody knows at this point. Maybe nobody will ever know.
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15-03-2015, 06:33 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
So if you were trying to stab me, you would have more of a problem with me telling you to stop, than if I tried to stab you back?
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15-03-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 06:33 PM)pablo Wrote:  So if you were trying to stab me, you would have more of a problem with me telling you to stop, than if I tried to stab you back?

No, not really. Then again, that's not an accurate representation of the issue, here.
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15-03-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 06:28 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
Quote:Is my nihilism the same as your ultimate obligation?

Well, nihilism, is, by definition, a worldview in which no obligations exist, whatsoever, so, no, I don't think you could say they're the same.

Nihilism means there is no overarching universal purpose. There isn't any less obligations with nihilism, as people create these obligations.

So, people create their own worldviews based on their own experiences and thoughts. There isn't any need for gods to create it.

Does that make sense?
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15-03-2015, 10:11 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 02:12 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  ... I'm not actually against torture in certain situations ...

The police have done well. They've got the suspected terrorist shackled to a chair in the interrogation room. The terrorist's suitcase H-bomb will detonate in an hour. Only the terrorist knows where, and how to disarm it. The police wheel in the first of several "enhanced" interrogation instruments.

But there's a problem. It's you they have shackled to that chair. The real terrorist is still at large. You know that because you're you. The police have you because time is short and they couldn't afford to be too picky about the accuracy of the evidence they've used to pick you up.

Still, you persuade the interrogators to let you speak to the Captain before they start in on you with a blowtorch and a pair of pliers. "Look," you tell the Captain, "you can't afford to waste time on the wrong suspect. You should be putting all your resources into finding the right guy. Untie me so I can help you find that guy".

"I agree with you," says the Captain. "We have to do everything we can to arrest the true terrorist. That's why, in addition to you, we have twelve other suspects in twelve other interrogation rooms we're torturing in order to get the information we need. That's why we still have two hundred officers and soldiers still in the streets, rounding up further suspects, That H-bomb will kill millions if it detonates. If we torture a hundred suspects with high odds that one of the hundred is the right guy, the lives saved will be worth the cost. And I can't release you to help us. It would divert resources to supervise you, to prevent your possible escape, that I can't afford to take away from our two primary efforts: arresting suspects, and torturing them. May your god be merciful with your soul. Good bye".

"Well," you say to the Captain's backside as he walks toward the door, "I can't fault your approach, given the time constraint and your limited manpower. But torturing me won't give you the information you need because I don't have it".

"Maybe," says the Captain without turning around or slowing his pace, "But I hope one of you does". And out the door he goes as the first interrogator snaps his blowtorch into a long blue flame.

************************************

I am quite sure you can imagine a dozen scenarios in which you would condone torture. The problem is that none of your imagined scenarios include you as the one being tortured. And that's just not reasonable, human capacity for irrational application being what it is, human propensity to make mistakes being what it is. Human perception of urgency and cost-benefit trade-offs being what it is.

Unless you really DO condone torture when it's you chained to the rack, for all the reasons stated by the Captain. But nothing in any of your posts suggests that.
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