Census of Quirinius
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18-12-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
Thanks. Yeah, it was kind of wall-of-texty, so I didn't read it the first time. No, I highly doubt those things happened.

That being said, what year do you think this census happened?
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18-12-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 01:41 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Thanks. Yeah, it was kind of wall-of-texty, so I didn't read it the first time. No, I highly doubt those things happened.
Again, by your standard, Josephus is not a reliable source.
Quote:That being said, what year do you think this census happened?
I don't know.
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18-12-2013, 03:29 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
Well, heres the thing: I don't particularly care if the census happened at all. It's not central to my world view, where as you have to make certain assumptions about the Bible being more accurate than other things to maintain your view.

If you don't know when it happened, why do you trust Luke at all?
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18-12-2013, 03:37 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 03:29 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Well, heres the thing: I don't particularly care if the census happened at all.
You fooled me. You seem quite concerned.
Quote:It's not central to my world view, where as you have to make certain assumptions about the Bible being more accurate than other things to maintain your view.

If you don't know when it happened, why do you trust Luke at all?
The Bible's a big book covering lots of events from a long time ago. Why would I expect to be able to independently confirm everything recorded in it?
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18-12-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 01:00 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 12:44 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Fine - then Josephus is also less than credible, and you have no evidence of an error by Luke.

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No, no, no, Rev. Don't you get it?

If one source is unreliable, then another source must be reliable.

Therefore if we have two sources, and one thing in one of them is unreliable, every thing in the other one is reliable - even when we already know some parts of it aren't.

...

That's how logic works, right?

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18-12-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 03:37 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
Quote:It's not central to my world view, where as you have to make certain assumptions about the Bible being more accurate than other things to maintain your view.

If you don't know when it happened, why do you trust Luke at all?
The Bible's a big book covering lots of events from a long time ago. Why would I expect to be able to independently confirm everything recorded in it?

There are, crudely, three categories in which we might assign historical accounts. True, false, and unknown.

The bible contains some that is true. The bible contains much that is unknown or irrelevant. The bible contains much that is provably false.

It appears - at best, since I'm being charitable - that you are basing an acceptance of unknown parts on the existence of some other parts which are amenable to confirmation.

That does not follow. At all.

(notwithstanding portions such as Luke's account of the census, which are impossible)

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18-12-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 03:37 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(18-12-2013 03:29 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Well, heres the thing: I don't particularly care if the census happened at all.
You fooled me. You seem quite concerned.

Seriously. I didn't even know about the census other than that it was mentioned in the New Testament until I read this thread. I don't care about it one bit.

What I care about is your truly bizarre fixation on "materialist bias". Ever since you've mentioned it, you've either tried to change the subject or point at how Josephus is equally unreliable. I don't care if Josephus is unreliable. I care about why you think I need to seriously consider that we might be living in the Matrix right now.

That's been the context of this entire discussion. I even reminded you of it when you tried to change the pegasus analogy to talk about something else.


(18-12-2013 03:37 PM)alpha male Wrote:  The Bible's a big book covering lots of events from a long time ago. Why would I expect to be able to independently confirm everything recorded in it?

You didn't answer the question. Why do you trust Luke? I didn't ask you if you felt you should verify everything in the entire Bible.
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18-12-2013, 10:58 PM
RE: Census of Quirinius
Seems topical.








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19-12-2013, 07:13 AM
RE: Census of Quirinius
(18-12-2013 03:51 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No, no, no, Rev. Don't you get it?

If one source is unreliable, then another source must be reliable.

Therefore if we have two sources, and one thing in one of them is unreliable, every thing in the other one is reliable - even when we already know some parts of it aren't.

...

That's how logic works, right?
Straw man.
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19-12-2013, 07:19 AM
RE: Census of Quirinius
The gospels are not "sources". They admit to being the "good news", (only).
They are as reliable as any other statement of belief. There is no way a text written by believers, for believers about what they already believe are historical in any sense. All they tell us is what people believed, NOT what happened. The discipline of history had no established criteria for recounting facts in that culture.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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