Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
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05-01-2015, 09:41 PM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
I've had a few delicate conversations with my daughter for for the exact purpose of getting her to step back and take a look.
Pushing too hard would be a bad move. Plant a seed and see if it grows.
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05-01-2015, 10:25 PM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
I've had people near me become infatuated with Gwyneth Paltrow. Thumbsup

And who let you back in here. I thought the back gate was still locked. Security around here sucks. Tongue

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05-01-2015, 11:29 PM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
I generally avoid talking about religion. I have no interest in trying to bring anyone to my way of thinking; I cannot fix the world. My family was very religious and they said "Grace" before every meal. I never got angry about it and I sat through prayers for years. I have never hidden the fact that I am a nonbeliever but there is no point in getting upset with people who want to pray. Essentially, it is rude of them to try to induce me to participate in their prayers but it would be rude of me to react adversely to it when it happens. That kind of dynamic does not serve anybody. I also know that I am not going to convince anybody that their Bible is bullshit. The only thing pointing out the flaws in the Bible will do is make them more defensive of it. Religion is such a highly emotional issue that it is almost impossible to cut through it with logic and common sense. In my experience, people only leave religion after long periods of introspection and self examination of it.
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06-01-2015, 12:26 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
exercise in futility. look at you lot.
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06-01-2015, 01:15 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
(06-01-2015 12:26 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  exercise in futility. look at you lot.

Since this is the case, why are you here?

OP, I dunno. I've not debated a hell of a lot and I've never had a friend whom I have debated *ever* say "You know what? That makes sense." Closest I've come is when debating a mate who had some bullshit going on about how it was impossible for God to lie. I backed him into a corner and he eventually admitted that it was an assumption Big Grin Man, that was fun. I think it has to have had an impact on him because he couldn't use the magic of cognitive dissonance to make it go away... But he's still as strong of a Christian as ever as far as I can tell.

Doublethink is a hectic thing.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-01-2015, 01:43 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
You can't convert a theist to atheism.
Only the unholy spirit can do that. All you can do is open the door.

Actually I have found it to be the case to some extent that there has been a drift towards atheism in my circle. I wonder if this is partially atheistic tenancies I would have been blind to as a theist or partly increasing sophistication in my peer group that would have happened in any case. My wife these days says "I don't know where I stand" which more or less means "I don't want to think about it". However, she is becoming more activist sceptic. I count that as progress.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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06-01-2015, 02:15 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
(06-01-2015 01:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(06-01-2015 12:26 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  exercise in futility. look at you lot.

Since this is the case, why are you here?

OP, I dunno. I've not debated a hell of a lot and I've never had a friend whom I have debated *ever* say "You know what? That makes sense." Closest I've come is when debating a mate who had some bullshit going on about how it was impossible for God to lie. I backed him into a corner and he eventually admitted that it was an assumption Big Grin Man, that was fun. I think it has to have had an impact on him because he couldn't use the magic of cognitive dissonance to make it go away... But he's still as strong of a Christian as ever as far as I can tell.

Doublethink is a hectic thing.

To argue. You don't expect to drum some sense into me do you?
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06-01-2015, 03:21 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
(06-01-2015 02:15 AM)Brownshirt Wrote:  
(06-01-2015 01:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  Since this is the case, why are you here?
To argue. You don't expect to drum some sense into me do you?

I surely do not, but I assumed *you* were here to try and change our minds? I am here for friendship mainly - you are here to... argue? Knowing that it's futile?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-01-2015, 04:31 AM
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
Planting seeds.
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06-01-2015, 05:40 AM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2015 08:02 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Changing minds, or an exercise in futility?
Step 1) Take one or more oppressed catholic girl(s).
Any type will do but Filipinas are plentiful.

Step 2) Use whichever stimulating ingrediients you have to hand. Shake well before use.
Teach her how to sin Angel

Step 3) Bring to the boil and then allow to simmer.
Explain the concept of 'guilt' and that no one outside her country believes in the supernatural anymore.
Enjoy the squeals of: "I knew it, I knew it, I knew it."

Step 4) Eat heartily
Add further squealing to taste.

Drinking Beverage

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