Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
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19-02-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(19-02-2015 03:08 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  So what? Many of the more learned Christians in this world believe in an Old Earth. Straw man, but thanks for sharing a fascinating discovery with us.

It's not a straw man when that's the stated belief of a large contingent of Christians. Or do they not count as true Christians?

It'd be a strawman if he posted that and claimed it was what you said. You can't take people's posts out of context like that and expect your response to make any sense.
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19-02-2015, 09:27 PM (This post was last modified: 19-02-2015 09:39 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(19-02-2015 03:08 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Oh yes. The Book of Baloney chapter 6, verse 5, states:

"And yay, the Earth is 6,000 years old. For in the days long after, around 2014 AD, whatever AD means, it shall be revealed that the Earth is now, today as I write the Book of Baloney, 4,000 years old, so around 2014, it should be, let's see, 6,000 years old."

Cave paintings are proven to be 40,000 years old. So what? Many of the more learned Christians in this world believe in an Old Earth. Straw man, but thanks for sharing a fascinating discovery with us.

But no thanks for the straw man. All of TTA, show me in the Christian Bible where it says the Earth is young (it says things instead like the "mountains are ancient") or where it says the Earth is 6,000 or even 10,000 years aloud, or kindly put away this old, old straw man (pun intended). As a matter of fact, I'd be pressed to remember a single religious text that is ancient (not some Scientology baloney from L. Ron Hubbard) that puts a date on the Earth's age. Stop it.
So which mutant variety of the creation myth do you believe? Can you be more specific?
Did the first upright primates (Australopithecus) come on the scene around 3 million years ago and we are descendents of them?
If that's the case, where did man get created if primates had been evolving separately from the creation myth?
Or do you not think evolution is true?

Let me guess, you believe certain cherry-picked science just like you believe your favorite cherry-picked scriptures with your favorite cherry-picked definitions of words in your cherry-picked scriptures.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-02-2015, 07:11 AM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(19-02-2015 09:27 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Let me guess, you believe certain cherry-picked science just like you believe your favorite cherry-picked scriptures with your favorite cherry-picked definitions of words in your cherry-picked scriptures.

I did that a lot in college. As soon as I felt I had the conflict resolved, I immediately stopped digging further, because I already had a pretty good idea that learning more would likely destroy the fragile balance I'd created. For example: a simple re-reading of Genesis 1 was enough to make me realize all of the "days" were out of order, and even my "day is an age" crap still didn't hold up.

Ugh. I hate the level of dishonesty I displayed back then.
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20-02-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(19-02-2015 07:02 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 03:08 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But no thanks for the straw man. All of TTA, show me in the Christian Bible where it says the Earth is young (it says things instead like the "mountains are ancient") or where it says the Earth is 6,000 or even 10,000 years aloud, or kindly put away this old, old straw man (pun intended). As a matter of fact, I'd be pressed to remember a single religious text that is ancient (not some Scientology baloney from L. Ron Hubbard) that puts a date on the Earth's age. Stop it.

Who claimed that the bible gives a date? It does not do so directly but many religious scholars have used it to calculate a date. Bishop Usher gets credit for the 4004BC date but many others aren't that far off from his claim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_Crea...Pentateuch

... the Seder Olam Rabbah, compiled by Jose ben Halafta in 160 AD, dates the creation of the world to 3761 BC while the later Seder Olam Zutta to 4339 BC.

Many of the earliest Christians who followed the Septuagint calculated creation around 5500 BC, and Christians up to the Middle-Ages continued to use this rough estimate: Clement of Alexandria (5592 BC), Theophilus of Antioch (5529 BC), Julius Africanus (5501 BC), Hippolytus of Rome (5500 BC), Gregory of Tours (5500 BC), Panodorus of Alexandria (5493 BC), Maximus the Confessor (5493 BC), George Syncellus (5492 BC) Sulpicius Severus (5469 BC), Isidore of Seville (5336 BC), Eusebius (5228 BC), and Jerome (5199 BC). The Byzantine calendar has traditionally dated the creation of the world to September 1, 5509 BC.

The Chronicon of Eusebius (early 4th century) dated creation to 5228 BC while Jerome (c. 380, Constantinople) dated creation to 5199 BC

and so on

Yabut, they weren't True Christians™, so it doesn't count. Drinking Beverage

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20-02-2015, 11:33 AM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(19-02-2015 09:27 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 03:08 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Oh yes. The Book of Baloney chapter 6, verse 5, states:

"And yay, the Earth is 6,000 years old. For in the days long after, around 2014 AD, whatever AD means, it shall be revealed that the Earth is now, today as I write the Book of Baloney, 4,000 years old, so around 2014, it should be, let's see, 6,000 years old."

Cave paintings are proven to be 40,000 years old. So what? Many of the more learned Christians in this world believe in an Old Earth. Straw man, but thanks for sharing a fascinating discovery with us.

But no thanks for the straw man. All of TTA, show me in the Christian Bible where it says the Earth is young (it says things instead like the "mountains are ancient") or where it says the Earth is 6,000 or even 10,000 years aloud, or kindly put away this old, old straw man (pun intended). As a matter of fact, I'd be pressed to remember a single religious text that is ancient (not some Scientology baloney from L. Ron Hubbard) that puts a date on the Earth's age. Stop it.
So which mutant variety of the creation myth do you believe? Can you be more specific?
Did the first upright primates (Australopithecus) come on the scene around 3 million years ago and we are descendents of them?
If that's the case, where did man get created if primates had been evolving separately from the creation myth?
Or do you not think evolution is true?

Let me guess, you believe certain cherry-picked science just like you believe your favorite cherry-picked scriptures with your favorite cherry-picked definitions of words in your cherry-picked scriptures.

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23-02-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
All,

You have a straw man there. A secular reader as well as a "true" Christian can determine whether the Bible gives a date for an event(s) (Flood, Creation) or whether it doesn't. It doesn't.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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23-02-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
Quote:For me the only certainty is that religion came into existence by humans to control wide swaths of population as a device.

There are animistic religions today and they generally serve small, isolated populations. I suspect the earliest spiritual thinking involved inventing answers for their own environment and issues of life/death. You don't have to control a wide swath of population if you have a clan of 30-40 people living in a small valley.

Generally, the growth of serious religion begins with the agrarian revolution which led to an increase in population and an end to the wanderings of the hunter/gatherer lifestyle. Agriculture led to food surplus which allowed specialization. Worse, agriculture required that the people who grew the food had to be protected while they were doing so and the attachment to the land meant that a warrior class was needed. Further, farmers are dependent on weather conditions which led to a whole new class of gods to bring rain or sun as needed and con men who acted as if they could influence those elements by dealing with the 'gods.' We have the same shit today and call them popes or mullahs or pastors or whatever but they are still the same fucking con artists they always have been.

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23-02-2015, 02:20 PM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(23-02-2015 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

You have a straw man there. A secular reader as well as a "true" Christian can determine whether the Bible gives a date for an event(s) (Flood, Creation) or whether it doesn't. It doesn't.

Like always, you're dodging the question, what mutant variety of creationism do you believe? There are major problems with OEC and YEC.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-02-2015, 03:26 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2015 03:31 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(23-02-2015 02:20 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(23-02-2015 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

You have a straw man there. A secular reader as well as a "true" Christian can determine whether the Bible gives a date for an event(s) (Flood, Creation) or whether it doesn't. It doesn't.

Like always, you're dodging the question, what mutant variety of creationism do you believe? There are major problems with OEC and YEC.

Oh, and I think GWOG has schooled you about these dates, so I'll present it here again for your education:
Quote:"First-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus used manuscripts available during his time to calculate that Noah's Flood occurred 1556 years after the creation of Adam. By adding the ages of the patriarchs listed in the Bible, other scholars have come up with roughly similar dates.

Irish archbishop James Ussher calculated that the creation of the world took place in 4004 BC. If 1656 is deducted from 4004 then the worldwide flood of Noah's time was around 2348 BC (if both chronologies are correct; but please note that there is some disagreement even among conservative Bible believers on these dates).

Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ — probably between 2500 BC and 2300 BC."

http://www.creationtips.com/flooddate.html

Whatsamatter Q, afraid of falsifiable dates because you can't hide behind the vagueness of something unspecific? It doesn't let you run your con game of interpretation as easy does it?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-02-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: Chauvet Cave - 40,000 yrs BC
(23-02-2015 01:57 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

You have a straw man there. A secular reader as well as a "true" Christian can determine whether the Bible gives a date for an event(s) (Flood, Creation) or whether it doesn't. It doesn't.

Could the flood reasonably be pinned to a certain range of dates given the lineages of people listed from Adam all the way down to the birth of Jesus? We know that none of them lived past 120 after Noah's kids, and the ones before that have ages listed.

We can pin down creation similarly by combination of the lineages listed above and the fact that people were created on the sixth day of creation. Again, it would be within a range, but you could certainly extrapolate a maximum age just by looking at the maximum age of everyone listed from Adam down to Joseph.
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