Checkmate, Atheists!
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20-11-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 04:09 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It's ironic that PJ is badmouthing the pornography industry by claiming it does harm when he's an active member of an industry that has harmed billions of people in far more serious ways–organised religion.

Especially since he abuses his kids and advocates and hands out the Pearl books on how to abuse your kids into submission without getting caught.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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20-11-2013, 10:42 PM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 12:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Off track again...? Sorry for that. Stay focused, people.

Porn actors have orgasms real or fake on camera--but they are not in large percentage happy people who enjoy their industry. What seems like an easy way to make money can wear a person thin and prematurely age them emotionally, etc. Where your money goes is who you support--and even clicking on porn links opens new tabs and windows so that criminal elements can attempt to over-report other paid subscribers and launder money.

Some porn actors have been horribly abused, some are runaways, some are addicts. Admittedly some are somewhat holistic people looking for money. They suffer over time. You can be a part of the problem or the solution, just as if everyone followed biblical abstinence unto marriage, STDs would all but disappear from Earth.

Ya'll make a lot of masturbation jokes at this forum. It's not the masturbation but the root lust. We've all lusted and coveted things that are inappropriate and the tenth commandment of Exodus 20 is broader than sexual lust.

Our thought lives reveal to ourselves that we're imperfect. Let's just start with "imperfect" and not "sinners" for now. Heaven is a perfect utopia, the imperfect cannot enter there. Venn diagram it, people.

Why does PJ always send us off to go do his research, and can never be seen to support his own opinions himself?

Also, alone else getting the vibe that PJ is seriously sexually repressed?


"Some" porn actors are abused, but "some" is a number from 1 to just shy of 50%. Forgive me if I do not grant you the benefit of the doubt. During the church child abuse scandals it was shown that the unabused children in Catholic schools in Ireland, were very probably in the minority. We actually have research to back that up (the Ryan Report). So how about we shut down the porn industry right after the Pope shuts down the Catholic church and it's army of pedophiles?

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20-11-2013, 10:46 PM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 10:42 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Why does PJ always send us off to go do his research, and can never be seen to support his own opinions himself?

[Image: 1986d1332082574-pocketesn-quickly-get-in...-troll.jpg]

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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20-11-2013, 10:47 PM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 12:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Off track again...? Sorry for that. Stay focused, people.

Porn actors have orgasms real or fake on camera--but they are not in large percentage happy people who enjoy their industry blah blah blah...

You are making this shit up.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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20-11-2013, 11:07 PM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 02:47 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It's been shared in churches...

Very impressive source...are you lost, have you forgotten where you are? Seriously are you ill?

I know atheists like to quote sources. I do too, when they're ironclad, since atheists just like Christians love to discredit sources!
In other words - you have no valid sources.

Jesus liked to do differently, rather than to quote sources in the Pharisaical/Rabbinic tradition, He quoted scripture or gave some thought-provoking questions. In other words, always getting you to the source of God or to think.
Don't believe in the Bible stories, not even the ones that starred Jesus.

Watch--we don't need sources--that you can also argue--as if you are blissfully unaware of the endless rounds of debates on college campuses as to the validity and necessity of porn.
Debates are discussions, not published, verified facts. Unless valid sources are quoted.
Are you a feminist? Do feminists defend porn?-they don't and I don't... I'm on the side of the liberals here, my friend, not the libertarians...
Feminist means different things to different people...vague question that isn't answerable.

Let's just use logic. I'll ask you some questions and you can formulate your own opinion. I want us to find agreement and harmony here.

How are you able to lie like that without choking?

Do porn actors and participants strike you as healthy, holistic, confident people?
Healthy...again vague...physically healthy, emotionally healthy? Holistic...what does that have to do with anything. Confident...any answer would be an assumption based on a role someone is playing.

Do you think after several days of filming gratuitous sex with multiple partners-- even strangers they don't know until filming begins--porn actors go home to happy marriages and other stable love relationships?
Certainly some do and some don't. Just like every other segment of the population.

Will their future children have healthy mores and safe boundaries mentally and emotionally if they grow old enough to see their parents' past performances on camera?
And again, an assumption based on impression, not fact.

If I offered you $50,000 to do porn for one year, say, 35 films, would you do so? Why or why not?
No, I wouldn't. But I have no right to tell someone else they can't. 30 years ago my answer may have been very different.

Do you think men and women who watch porn frequently are more or less likely to respect other men and women in sexual contexts? Why or why not?
Again a question wanting assumptions...blanket assessments about people I don't know.

Porn is called "adult entertainment". Do you think there are more or less consequences for ten- and twelve-year-olds who watch porn then there are for seeing an R-rated movie without parental guidance? Why is that?
No, children should not be allowed to watch porn for the same reasons that we limit other activities and rights based on age and maturity.

In your own love life, do you sometimes have trouble focusing on your partner? If during sex, do you fantasize about porn you've seen?
No and no

Are you aware of typical porn addiction testimonies that say harder and harder pornography was needed to climax and receive pleasure? Why do you think that is? Others say masturbation and fantasy even became preferred over sex with an adult partner. Is that a healthy lifestyle?
TYPICAL porn addiction, as opposed to atypical porn addiction...once again these are assumptions...there isn't a fact based question on this yet.

If we need not feel guilt about lust, would you be comfortable sharing that you masturbate to porn on nationwide TV? Why or why not? Do you think all sexual guilt is rooted in religion or in culture or could there be a different source?
I don't feel the need to discuss MY sex life with anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason, except for my doctor and my partner. It has nothing to do with guilt or shame, it's a personal issue.

Thanks.

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21-11-2013, 12:13 AM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
*DISCLAIMER*
I just replied and posted this to fix the formatting issues with Anjele's post so that others can read what was said without wading through all of the code. All I did was adjust the formatting to make it readable, I did not edit anything else or add my own commentary.

(20-11-2013 11:07 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I know atheists like to quote sources. I do too, when they're ironclad, since atheists just like Christians love to discredit sources!
In other words - you have no valid sources.

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Jesus liked to do differently, rather than to quote sources in the Pharisaical/Rabbinic tradition, He quoted scripture or gave some thought-provoking questions. In other words, always getting you to the source of God or to think.
Don't believe in the Bible stories, not even the ones that starred Jesus.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Watch--we don't need sources--that you can also argue--as if you are blissfully unaware of the endless rounds of debates on college campuses as to the validity and necessity of porn.
Debates are discussions, not published, verified facts. Unless valid sources are quoted.

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Are you a feminist? Do feminists defend porn?-they don't and I don't... I'm on the side of the liberals here, my friend, not the libertarians...
Feminist means different things to different people...vague question that isn't answerable.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Let's just use logic. I'll ask you some questions and you can formulate your own opinion. I want us to find agreement and harmony here.
How are you able to lie like that without choking?

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Do porn actors and participants strike you as healthy, holistic, confident people?
Healthy...again vague...physically healthy, emotionally healthy? Holistic...what does that have to do with anything. Confident...any answer would be an assumption based on a role someone is playing.

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Do you think after several days of filming gratuitous sex with multiple partners-- even strangers they don't know until filming begins--porn actors go home to happy marriages and other stable love relationships?
Certainly some do and some don't. Just like every other segment of the population.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Will their future children have healthy mores and safe boundaries mentally and emotionally if they grow old enough to see their parents' past performances on camera?
And again, an assumption based on impression, not fact.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If I offered you $50,000 to do porn for one year, say, 35 films, would you do so? Why or why not?
No, I wouldn't. But I have no right to tell someone else they can't. 30 years ago my answer may have been very different.

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Do you think men and women who watch porn frequently are more or less likely to respect other men and women in sexual contexts? Why or why not?
Again a question wanting assumptions...blanket assessments about people I don't know.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Porn is called "adult entertainment". Do you think there are more or less consequences for ten- and twelve-year-olds who watch porn then there are for seeing an R-rated movie without parental guidance? Why is that?
No, children should not be allowed to watch porn for the same reasons that we limit other activities and rights based on age and maturity.

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In your own love life, do you sometimes have trouble focusing on your partner? If during sex, do you fantasize about porn you've seen?
No and no

(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Are you aware of typical porn addiction testimonies that say harder and harder pornography was needed to climax and receive pleasure? Why do you think that is? Others say masturbation and fantasy even became preferred over sex with an adult partner. Is that a healthy lifestyle?
TYPICAL porn addiction, as opposed to atypical porn addiction...once again these are assumptions...there isn't a fact based question on this yet.


(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If we need not feel guilt about lust, would you be comfortable sharing that you masturbate to porn on nationwide TV? Why or why not? Do you think all sexual guilt is rooted in religion or in culture or could there be a different source?
I don't feel the need to discuss MY sex life with anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason, except for my doctor and my partner. It has nothing to do with guilt or shame, it's a personal issue.

Thanks.

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21-11-2013, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2013 12:46 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 03:22 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 02:47 PM)Anjele Wrote:  It's been shared in churches...

Very impressive source...are you lost, have you forgotten where you are? Seriously are you ill?

I know atheists like to quote sources. I do too, when they're ironclad, since atheists just like Christians love to discredit sources!

Jesus liked to do differently, rather than to quote sources in the Pharisaical/Rabbinic tradition, He quoted scripture or gave some thought-provoking questions. In other words, always getting you to the source of God or to think.


Um your reference to fictional fairy stories is irrelevant.

Quote:Watch--we don't need sources--that you can also argue--as if you are blissfully unaware of the endless rounds of debates on college campuses as to the validity and necessity of porn.

It's no surprise that you idiots choose to take your culture war to college campuses. But the location of the debate is irrelevant, something you are too fucking arrogant and stupid to acknowledge.

Quote:Are you a feminist? Do feminists defend porn?-they don't and I don't... I'm on the side of the liberals here, my friend, not the libertarians...

I am a feminist and yes, feminists defend porn. Already established.

Quote:Let's just use logic.
You wouldn't know logic if it bent you over and fucked you in the ass with a cactus wrapped in barbed wire and soaked in habanero sauce.


Quote:I'll ask you some questions and you can formulate your own opinion. I want us to find agreement and harmony here.

Leading questions are bullshit.

Quote:Do porn actors and participants strike you as healthy, holistic, confident people?

Yes, the ones I have met do, and are. End of fucking strawdog argument.

Quote:Do you think after several days of filming gratuitous sex with multiple partners-- even strangers they don't know until filming begins--porn actors go home to happy marriages and other stable love relationships?

You would be surprised. Your ignorant prejudice is showing.


Quote:Will their future children have healthy mores and safe boundaries mentally and emotionally...

Of course. It's called honesty. You, the son of a bitch who fearfully beats your offspring with a plastic hose, wouldn't know anything about being HONEST with your children if it fucked you in the ass.

Quote: if they grow old enough to see their parents' past performances on camera?

A helluva lot better than being beaten into submission with a plastic hose.


Quote:If I offered you $50,000 to do porn for one year, say, 35 films, would you do so? Why or why not?

Do you really see this question as relevant? Rolleyes


Quote:Do you think men and women who watch porn frequently are more or less likely to respect other men and women in sexual contexts?
Why or why not?

Beg the Question much? At least you admitted that women enjoy watching porn too. Think about it. Or not.



Quote:Porn is called "adult entertainment". Do you think there are more or less consequences for ten- and twelve-year-olds who watch porn then there are for seeing an R-rated movie without parental guidance? Why is that?

Non Sequitur much?

In your rush to demonize unbelievers, you seem to forget the incest and pedophilia of the so-called "heroes" in your own fairy-tale book Case in point: Lot and his two daughters having a nice little incestuous fuck-a-thon after your Gawd conveniently cleared his wife out of the picture for the horrendous crime of looking over her shoulder at the carnage of his (supposed) handiwork.


Quote:In your own love life, do you sometimes have trouble focusing on your partner?

Nope, never. Your questions are approaching desperation.

Quote: If during sex, do you fantasize about porn you've seen?

Fantasy is a healthy and intrinsic part of sexuality. Have YOU EVER fantasized about ANYTHING while having sex with your partner? If you claim you haven't, I am calling you a fucking liar.

It may shock the shit out of your sorry naive ass, but real people -- couples who are in love, for example -- do enjoy the experience of seeing others enjoy the beautiful experience of human sexuality. It's a natural part of the human experience, and if you don't fucking like it, you are more than welcome to punch out of the human experience. I'll be happy to loan you the shotgun to stick in your mouth. As long as I get it back....

Quote:Are you aware of typical porn addiction testimonies that say harder and harder pornography was needed to climax and receive pleasure?

I am aware of all of the typical XTARD bullshit propaganda. <yawn>


Quote:Why do you think that is?

Mostly sorry-ass attention-seeking.


Quote:Others say masturbation and fantasy even became preferred over sex with an adult partner. Is that a healthy lifestyle?

Strawman much?

Quote:If we need not feel guilt about lust,

Beg the Question much?

Quote:...would you be comfortable sharing that you masturbate to porn on nationwide TV?
....stupid fucking question much?

Quote:Why or why not? Do you think all sexual guilt is rooted in religion or in culture or could there be a different source
Sexual guilt is rooted in your batshit crazy religion. Fucking deal with it.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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21-11-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 12:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Off track again...? Sorry for that. Stay focused, people.

Porn actors have orgasms real or fake on camera--but they are not in large percentage happy people who enjoy their industry. What seems like an easy way to make money can wear a person thin and prematurely age them emotionally, etc. Where your money goes is who you support--and even clicking on porn links opens new tabs and windows so that criminal elements can attempt to over-report other paid subscribers and launder money.

Some porn actors have been horribly abused, some are runaways, some are addicts. Admittedly some are somewhat holistic people looking for money. They suffer over time. You can be a part of the problem or the solution, just as if everyone followed biblical abstinence unto marriage, STDs would all but disappear from Earth.

Ya'll make a lot of masturbation jokes at this forum. It's not the masturbation but the root lust. We've all lusted and coveted things that are inappropriate and the tenth commandment of Exodus 20 is broader than sexual lust.

Our thought lives reveal to ourselves that we're imperfect. Let's just start with "imperfect" and not "sinners" for now. Heaven is a perfect utopia, the imperfect cannot enter there. Venn diagram it, people.

Awesome that you know so much about porn and masturbation. Well done you.
LOL

good luck with that

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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21-11-2013, 09:12 AM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 04:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 02:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Logisch,

People in the porn industry are dying, faster than others. Do you still feel like trivializing the sex slavery industry, prostitution, broken marriages, broken hearts, and shattered youth?

We Christians like to joke around and have fun as much as anyone. But you ought to be more mature and more careful about what and who you choose to mock.

Okay, I checked up on this claim.

I found few sites which actually addressed this claim, which include:
http://danielrjennings.org/TheAverageLif...Star.html. I am fairly sceptical of this site; not only is it blatant god-bothering but more importantly it does not seem to provide any sources (aside from a Bible reference) which corroborate it's initial claim.

http://billicaine.com/index.php/blog/20-...ar-deaths. This site has very similar claims to that of the above and actually has a source.

The information from both of the above seems to come from one place (though it's only cited in one); the website and book of one Shelly Lubben. Shelly is an ex-porn actress and reports that there is an average life-span of 37.43 years for porn actors, a ruling of which seems to be based on the porn actor population of California which numbered around 2000 individuals as of 2007, 119 of which died between then '07 and 2013, 39 of which were due to cancers, lung disease and heart failure which of course has a high death toll in the general population anyway. I must stress that I didn't find a study one her site. Her claims were there but I didn't find, for example, links to the research paper from which the claims must have been made.

One interesting thing I would like to note; through my small time researching this, it seems that there are two constants; the majority of anti-porn advocates are either A) Evangelical Christian or B) a feminist activist. Of which claims are almost assuredly encountered; "It's a sin" and "Women are objectified (never mind the men)", the first one is arguable as it assumes sin is even a real thing, the second generalisation is far more accurate, but focusing of women objectification above that of men (Y U NO EQUALITY?!) is pretty bias.


I have found no evidence to support your claim that people in the porn industry are dying off faster than others. I couldn't even find a total death rate to compare against other industries. I can't even assume Shelly Lubben's report to be the average per every 2000 members of the industry to use that because I couldn't find even a rough number of people in the industry... (fun fact though, Utah is the largest paid consumer of internet porn in the US).

Anyway, since no information in that way was forthcoming I turned to death rates by industry to see just which industry had a higher death rate total.
According to US Department of Labour's Bureau of Labor Statistics, the industry with the greatest amount of fatalities (as of 2012 census) was Transportation and Warehousing:
BLS Wrote:Among service-providing industries in the private sector, fatal work injuries in transportation and warehousing
accounted for 677 fatal work injuries in 2012, a decrease of 10 percent over the revised 2011 count (749 fatalities)

In addition Transport & material moving also had the highest deaths by occupation, in addition to industry.
BLS also Wrote:Fatal work injuries in transportation and material moving occupations were down 7 percent to 1,150 in 2012.
Fatal work injuries in this occupational group accounted for about one quarter of all fatal occupational injuries.
Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers was the subgroup within transportation and material moving occupations with
the highest number of fatal injuries. Dropping 4 percent, this subgroup recorded 741 fatalities in 2012. Fatal
injuries to taxi drivers and chauffeurs were down 28 percent to a series low of 46.

Funnily enough, the porn industry doesn't even rate apparently.

Do you see a lot of NIH grants researching porn actors?

This is not an industry that stands up to scrunity or welcomes it. This is not an industry that Congress wants to "get into" for multiple reasons:

*We're talking mob and organized crime here

*We're talking Congressional reps who use porn

*There have been no major US busts of CHILD pornographers for more than a decade. THEY are the victims we should focus on.
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21-11-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: Checkmate, Atheists!
(20-11-2013 05:25 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Why do churches badmouth sex? I think St Paul got the ball rolling, and churches have jumped on the bandwagon as it helps them control people. Here's my two cents worth on this...

Paul loathed his own sexuality.
“The fact is, I know of nothing good living in me—living, that is, in my unspiritual self—for though the will to do what is good is in me, the performance is not, with the result that instead of doing good the things I want to do, I carry out the sinful things I do not want. When I act against my will, then, it is not my true self doing it, but sin which lives in me…I can see my body follows a different law that battles against the law which my reason dictates…What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body doomed to death” (Rom. 7:18–24, NJB.)

Poor, pathetic Paul! Deluded with puritanical ideas, he was repulsed by his own libido and miserable. He was a suppressed, toxic little man, ill at ease with himself.

It’s no surprise he was celibate:
“I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn” (1 Cor. 7:8–9, KJV.)

To be single was quite unusual for a Pharisee, as they were expected to marry. I suspect Paul would have had difficulty finding a woman willing to live with him. Or he may have been homosexual, yet ashamed to be, so he lived “in the closet.” Whatever the case, he quite clearly had a neurosis about sex:

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live” (Rom. 8:6–13, KJV.)

"He wants you to keep away from fornication and each one of you to know how to use the body that belongs to him in a way that is holy and honorable, not giving away to selfish lust like the pagans who do not know God, He wants nobody at all to ever sin by taking advantage of a brother in these matters; the Lord always punishes sins of that sort, as we told you before and assured you. We have been called by God to be holy, not to be immoral” (1 Thess. 4:3–7, NJB.)

“Yes, it is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman. But since sex is always a danger, let each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband must give his wife what she has the right to expect, and so too the wife to the husband. The wife has no rights over her own body; it is the husband who has them. In the same way, the husband has no rights over his body; the wife has them. Do not refuse each other except by mutual consent, and then only for an agreed time, to leave yourselves free for prayer; then come together again in case Satan should take advantage of your weakness to tempt you” (1 Cor. 7:1–6, NJB.)

My commentary is almost superfluous. He thought sex was distasteful, an annoying but necessary nuisance, like going to the toilet. He thought people should get it over with quickly, so they could get on with praying. He implied people should get married so sex was on tap; that a spouse served a similar function as a convenient toilet.

From where did he get this sour, jaundiced perspective? He may have been sexually abused as a child, or had erectile difficulties, or been disgusted by his own attraction towards men, or been brainwashed with Platonic ideas about base bodily functions. He may have thought the end of the world was imminent, so it was better to not reproduce.

I think he was perturbed by the fact that sex was a distraction, because it was way more interesting than his spiritual profundities. So he tried to control the sexual part of people’s lives too.

While most people today quite rightly dismiss this dogma, a sizable minority doesn’t. Consider the psychological damage caused by negativity about sex inflicted on millions of innocent people through their Christian upbringings. All youngsters explore their sexuality; yet the child or adolescent is told that such behaviors—even thoughts—are sins! The consequence is unnecessary guilt and shame. The psychology here was worked out centuries ago. The church’s underlying agenda has always been to get people to dislike themselves. When an ego is wounded, a person is easier to control. The virgin Jesus, pure and sinless, comes to the rescue, sexual sins are forgiven, and the church has conned another customer. The punter is saved from a problem he never had in the first place.

This guilt about our most natural instincts is a filthy stain that’s hard to wash out of people’s minds once it has taken root. Shame on churches for promoting this as the word of God!

Sex is a special, natural, wholesome, and beautiful part of life. It’s a private affair, so preachers should butt out of people’s personal practices.

Mark,

I love sex. My wife loves it too--after all, she gets to have it with me. Cool

GOD INVENTED HUMAN SEX, not Satan. Are you being serious?

I'm pro-sex and anti-porn and anti-masturbation. Sex is for 2. Why not make reservations for 2?
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