Ched Evans rape case
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17-10-2014, 01:31 AM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(16-10-2014 05:11 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I think when it comes to sex crime in the west we have a rather peculiar problem where we are very reluctant to convict anyone, and almost completely unwilling to forgive them once we do.

Maybe that's part of why we're reluctant to convict...


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17-10-2014, 02:26 AM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(16-10-2014 10:37 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  The case was very controversial as it wasn't a standard rape case.

I would really like to know what you mean by this line.

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17-10-2014, 10:17 AM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
Hmm....

Justice is equal payment. If he has served his time then that's it. That's the end of it. He should be able to apply for work, and I see no reason to justify not allowing it. Whether or not he finds it is another matter, but if a club wants to hire him I see no reason he shouldn't be allowed to.

Were her comments offensive? Kind of. A lot of times the attitude towards nonconsesual sex is "if he didn't hurt you, deal with it." And that's not cool. But if she wants to defend his right to work then ok. That's her business. But I'm not sure her other comments that "it wasn't violent" are helpful.
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17-10-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
This is the type of stuff where if you comment on it people will sum you up, label you, and hate on you.

Just to answer your questions.
1. The purpose of a legal system that doles out punishments is to have you pay for your crime. Stopping a person from working after they have "payed" for their crime isn't just in my opinion. Of course a few things to be considered:
Is he is a danger to himself or others in his work environment?
Is he able to do the work? (play the sport)
Is anybody willing to hire him?

Those are the factors that should be taken into consideration. For the most part I believe in forgiving others who have done wrong. My exceptions for that rule are taking the life of another without a very very good reason, over the top violent assault which crippled the assaulted, and any sort of enslavement or exploitation of those physically or psychologically unable to resist or escape.

2. Was her comment offensive? Well, anybody is fine to give their opinion. To me, my least favorite opinions are the ones that say, "your opinions are stupid (and/or some other personal attack) because they don't agree with mine." I don't have all the details on the situation, but a girl who got drunk at a party and had sex with some guys then later claims rape better have made a good case. I'm too skeptical to give either side a pass in a situation like that.

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17-10-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(17-10-2014 02:26 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I would really like to know what you mean by this line.

I mean that it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point. The waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was. Bear in mind that both Evans and his friend had sex with the victim, were charged with rape, but Evans was found guilty whilst his friend was acquitted.

I'm not an expert in rape cases but it doesn't sound like the sort of case that will be regularly heard of.

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17-10-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(17-10-2014 01:31 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 02:26 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I would really like to know what you mean by this line.

I mean that it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point. The waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was. Bear in mind that both Evans and his friend had sex with the victim, were charged with rape, but Evans was found guilty whilst his friend was acquitted.

I'm not an expert in rape cases but it doesn't sound like the sort of case that will be regularly heard of.

Well Rape is a laymans term not a legal one. Non-Consensual sex is a legal term and that fits this situation as well as the dragged into the bushes one.

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17-10-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(17-10-2014 01:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 01:31 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I mean that it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point. The waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was. Bear in mind that both Evans and his friend had sex with the victim, were charged with rape, but Evans was found guilty whilst his friend was acquitted.

I'm not an expert in rape cases but it doesn't sound like the sort of case that will be regularly heard of.

Well Rape is a laymans term not a legal one. Non-Consensual sex is a legal term and that fits this situation as well as the dragged into the bushes one.

Indeed. The word "rape" does not occur in the criminal code of Canada. There are only various types of sexual assault.

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20-10-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
The main issue aside, referring to Judy Finnigan's comments, I find it very disturbing that just lately if anyone says anything that goes against any widely held opinion, they're practically forced to retract their statement and issue an "unreserved apology"... Its to be expected of politicians, because they're after votes, but its spread to practically any public figure who happens to say anything mildly contentious.

Regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with Finnigan's opinion, its her opinion and she has a right to express it... Criticism, or a counter argument is always welcome, but the backlash people receive often forces them to keep their views private. Which is in itself a threat to freedom of speech.

I wish people would stand their ground when the only thing to challenge their opinion is "you can't say that"... But they back down, usually within 24 hours.

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20-10-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(17-10-2014 01:31 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(17-10-2014 02:26 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I would really like to know what you mean by this line.

I mean that it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point. The waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was. Bear in mind that both Evans and his friend had sex with the victim, were charged with rape, but Evans was found guilty whilst his friend was acquitted.

I'm not an expert in rape cases but it doesn't sound like the sort of case that will be regularly heard of.

Pretty sure that sounds like it could be described as a "standard" rape case, or do you think rape only happens with severe violence?

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20-10-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
Is it just me or did Judy Finnegan seemed pretty casual about rape until one of her family was threatened? Perhaps if the people threatening her daughter had said that the rape would be non-violent and that they'd wait until she was drunk, then there wouldn't have been any complaints from her.

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