Ched Evans rape case
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21-10-2014, 05:29 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 05:27 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Were they tried together or separately? It makes a difference.

Good question, I'm not sure. I'll try and find out.

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21-10-2014, 05:30 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 05:29 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 05:27 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Were they tried together or separately? It makes a difference.

Good question, I'm not sure. I'll try and find out.

Together apparently.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2014, 05:59 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 05:30 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 05:29 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Good question, I'm not sure. I'll try and find out.

Together apparently.

Hmm, had it been separately then the statistics I gave would have applied. Maybe the prosecution aimed at the famous guy more strongly in the trial.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-10-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 05:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Hmm, had it been separately then the statistics I gave would have applied. Maybe the prosecution aimed at the famous guy more strongly in the trial.

Both were footballers, I think they were teammates. I don't know the specifics of the case, or the reasoning given for one being found guilty and one innocent.

Tbh, my only point was that out of every rape that occurs this very specific set of circumstances do not all apply to the majority of cases. For some reason EC seemed to take issue with that.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2014, 06:09 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 06:04 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 05:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Hmm, had it been separately then the statistics I gave would have applied. Maybe the prosecution aimed at the famous guy more strongly in the trial.

Both were footballers, I think they were teammates. I don't know the specifics of the case, or the reasoning given for one being found guilty and one innocent.

Tbh, my only point was that out of every rape that occurs this very specific set of circumstances do not all apply to the majority of cases. For some reason EC seemed to take issue with that.

I think it was more your phrasing, seeming to imply that it wasn't a "real" rape that cause the response you got.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-10-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 06:09 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I think it was more your phrasing, seeming to imply that it wasn't a "real" rape that cause the response you got.

People need to stop reading stuff I don't say into my posts. How anyone could take that it wasn't a "real" rape from my stating that it wasn't a "standard" case is beyond me.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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21-10-2014, 08:07 PM (This post was last modified: 21-10-2014 08:17 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 03:46 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Playing in a professional sport is not a reward dolled out to society based on who most deserves it, is it is competitive position held by people who display the most athletic ability. Chad Evans is no less a competent athlete for what he did, and he is in every way just as qualified to be a pro soccer player as he was before. His punishment for the crimes he committed was his prison sentence. Nobody is dismissing the harm he did. The question being posed is, at what point do you stop punishing the criminal? I say as soon as his prison sentence is over he has the right to reintegrate into society. You say that his punitive punishments should extend beyond prison. My question is why, and is that healthy?

I am not saying he has not served his prison sentence, nor that anybody is ignoring what he has done. I am telling you that his punishment is not over because there is a large portion of society that will continue to view him with scorn and pressure institutions to bar him. View it like this: Americans have free speech. They are not, however, free of criticism or mockery for any of the stupid things they say.

Does being raped or reporting sexual assault effect a woman's capability to perform her job? No. Do employers discriminate against women because of it? Yes. How their past actions impact their ability is irrelevant, and most employers recognize that.

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22-10-2014, 06:12 AM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 06:04 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 05:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Hmm, had it been separately then the statistics I gave would have applied. Maybe the prosecution aimed at the famous guy more strongly in the trial.

Both were footballers, I think they were teammates. I don't know the specifics of the case, or the reasoning given for one being found guilty and one innocent.

Tbh, my only point was that out of every rape that occurs this very specific set of circumstances do not all apply to the majority of cases. For some reason EC seemed to take issue with that.

I'm sorry, but that wasn't what you said. You said it wasn't a standard rape because "it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point" to use your exact words. You also said "the waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was" despite saying in your original post that she was "a really drunk girl". When she's drunk, the waters aren't muddied. It's almost certainly going to be rape if she's too drunk to consent.

A rape taking place when the victim is very drunk without the need for much violence is as standard as you can get for a rape case, if there is such a thing. Yet you now claim you it was the the result you meant was not "standard" despite only mentioning that as an aside when originally challenged.

The idea that rape is only "standard" when violence is involved or when the woman isn't drunk is a nasty one. I think you're the one being disingenuous here.

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22-10-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(21-10-2014 03:17 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(21-10-2014 02:10 PM)cjlr Wrote:  You said there were things he should never be "allowed" to do in the future, based on his past offense.

Having worked in an environment where staff are checked for past criminal convictions, I assure you there are a ton of things he shouldn't, and wouldn't, ever be allowed to do.

I have also worked in institutions where criminal background checks are a requirement. I am aware that sometimes such standards exist.

I certainly grant your use of "wouldn't". I have problems with "shouldn't".

The ideal of a rehabilitative system is just that - rehabilitation.

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22-10-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Ched Evans rape case
(22-10-2014 06:12 AM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  I'm sorry, but that wasn't what you said. You said it wasn't a standard rape because "it wasn't a cut and dry situation where someone has been dragged into bushes at knife point" to use your exact words. You also said "the waters are muddied a hell of a lot by the level of alcohol the victim had consumed and question marks over how drunk she was" despite saying in your original post that she was "a really drunk girl". When she's drunk, the waters aren't muddied. It's almost certainly going to be rape if she's too drunk to consent.

A rape taking place when the victim is very drunk without the need for much violence is as standard as you can get for a rape case, if there is such a thing. Yet you now claim you it was the the result you meant was not "standard" despite only mentioning that as an aside when originally challenged.

The idea that rape is only "standard" when violence is involved or when the woman isn't drunk is a nasty one. I think you're the one being disingenuous here.

Don't even start cherry picking sentences to support your preconceived notions. That post went on to make clear that I didn't think it was standard to have two defendants who are both accused of the same thing, both admit the same thing, but one is found guilty and the other innocent. Hence these sentences that you conveniently missed; Bear in mind that both Evans and his friend had sex with the victim, were charged with rape, but Evans was found guilty whilst his friend was acquitted. I'm not an expert in rape cases but it doesn't sound like the sort of case that will be regularly heard of.

Also, I fully stand by my comments that the waters were muddied by how drunk she was. There is no way to retrospectively test when she made her police report, how drunk she was at the time. The only thing to go on as to how drunk she was is the testimony of herself, and of the defendants. So yeah, of course it muddies the waters. Whenever you have a situation where it's one person's word against another then it muddies the waters, regardless of what the case is.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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