Chelsea Manning suicide fast
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12-09-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
(12-09-2016 09:54 AM)kim Wrote:  
(12-09-2016 04:32 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I never stated or implied that. I was speaking initially of some of the issues surrounding the incarceration of transgender people and mentioned a specific case we had to deal with at the detention centre where I work.

I was confused, too.
Also, I think Manning has had sexual reassignment surgery and is no longer a male... I THINK ... not certain of that. I could run up the road and find out - her prison is only about 70 miles from me. Shy

***update***
Oops - just checked - she hasn't had surgery, yet - she's still in the hormone zone. Lots of depression at that stage, from what a friend (who's been there) has told me.

Sorry for my lack of clarity, then.

But yeah it's a complex problem to deal with for which current procedures are not adequate and will be slow to adapt. I don't know exactly what her situation is there, but it seems like every other day I cringe when I see the latest headline for the detention centre I work at talking about how we're unfairly using segregating as a way to torment and discriminate... Which is bullshit. It's just not that simple.

'Murican Canadian
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12-09-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
Consider Hmm... maybe there is a need for detention centers specifically to house transgender offenders - ones that have their own yards and recreation areas. That might actually be quite successful regarding rehabilitation. And it would certainly take a lot of the burden off existing facilities.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-09-2016, 01:18 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
Hi,

For the person that is know as 'Chelsea Manning', this Earth is indeed Hell on Earth.

Where is our compassion for the 'other' ?

D.
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12-09-2016, 01:26 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
(12-09-2016 01:14 PM)kim Wrote:  Consider Hmm... maybe there is a need for detention centers specifically to house transgender offenders - ones that have their own yards and recreation areas. That might actually be quite successful regarding rehabilitation. And it would certainly take a lot of the burden off existing facilities.

On paper that sounds like a wonderful idea, just like a lot of other wonderful ideas we're supposed to have already implemented but can't. We're so critically understaffed that we're lucky if we can get the inmates out for their "daily" yard time weekly. Same with rehabilitation type classes. They're on the schedule, the teachers come, but we don't have the manpower to provide the ministry required number of escorts to have the inmates dividing into separate groups so the classes get cancelled. It all boils down to funding.

Ask the public if they want another facility for transgender inmates, they'll say it's a great idea. Ask them if they want to drop a few hundred million dollars to make it happen, and that's another story.

'Murican Canadian
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12-09-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
I figured you guys were understaffed & underfunded. Many institutions are - it's the same with hospitals and it's getting to be that way with schools. Our infrastructure has been fucked and running on empty for so long ... it's weird but, it almost seems as if we're used to it. It's fucking shameful. Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-09-2016, 01:49 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
(12-09-2016 01:31 PM)kim Wrote:  I figured you guys were understaffed & underfunded. Many institutions are - it's the same with hospitals and it's getting to be that way with schools. Our infrastructure has been fucked and running on empty for so long ... it's weird but, it almost seems as if we're used to it. It's fucking shameful. Undecided

It does seem like it's becoming standard. Though we're only technically required to take our four scheduled 12 hour shifts per week, correctional subculture is such that if you're not putting in at least 20 hours of overtime (one additional 12 hour shift) you're pretty much viewed as an ass hole for not pulling your weight. Even the inmates start to hate the slackers because the less overtime we pull, the less likely they are to get let out for yard, phone calls, etc.

'Murican Canadian
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12-09-2016, 02:10 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
I just find the idea of giving someone a 35 year sentence to be excessive. Seriously, was national security breached in a way that anyone actually was put in danger? I expect not.

There was a kid from the Shetlands, I think, who hacked the Pentagon and they tried to extradite him but he had some mental condition like autism.

There was somethign like 150,000 Iraqi's killed in the war and only 200 or so American troops, none of whom died as a result of compromised intelligence via Wikileaks.

I suppose, though, she'll be out in five years, aged about 36 and will write a book.
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12-09-2016, 08:42 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
(12-09-2016 02:10 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I just find the idea of giving someone a 35 year sentence to be excessive. Seriously, was national security breached in a way that anyone actually was put in danger? I expect not.

There was a kid from the Shetlands, I think, who hacked the Pentagon and they tried to extradite him but he had some mental condition like autism.

There was somethign like 150,000 Iraqi's killed in the war and only 200 or so American troops, none of whom died as a result of compromised intelligence via Wikileaks.

I suppose, though, she'll be out in five years, aged about 36 and will write a book.

If she writes a book about this, she is not entitled to the proceeds. That's US law. I'm trying to figure why you care about this. She made her own bed by committing treason, now she's just going to have to lie in it. I guess living in the right kind of free country is cramping her style. If she had done this in most of the rest of the world, she wouldn't be complaining about it, she'd already be dead.
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13-09-2016, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2016 01:58 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
I don't know of any other western countries that hand out such heavy sentences.

I live out here in the neck of the woods which is most affected by this stuff and I don't think any of this has anything to do with security. I don't think this disclosure put a single life at risk.

What does put lives at risk, as the Chilcott Enquiry report found, was sending troops into wars unprepared. Why would this happen? Because the money which should be spent on preparation and equipment is paid to Saudi princes and UK and other gov staff orchestrate the event. They are all involved in greasing the wheels. BAE and Tony Blair got caught: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/d....tonyblair

What more of Chelsea Manning's sort of conduct might end is a covert, private system of protracting wars, killing innnocent people who are trying to throw off a government they don't like but are being opposed by the British, and the Americans with no mandate from either government to do this, no public discussion and no consideration of the morality of what they are doing. It's called Yemen. That war supports huge US and UK contracts for armaments and service to the Saudis. Hey, forget about the UK being in Europe. UK business is fine because what they do is supply vastly expensive armaments, developed largely through UK government funding of military projects from taxes, to the Saudis who, in turn, hand out huge contracts for these armaments, provided you pay personal bribes to these officials, and who do you think is doing the PR work for these companies. Tony Blair, local consular staff, defense procurement officers.

If you lived out here, where there is supposed to be a huge need to get rid of Assad, for instance, and you come into contact with Consular staff from the UK, the one thing that hits you is that these people come into this culture and holus bolus get involved in "local customs" and practices in places where the business ethic is corrupt. You eventually realize you are seeing things here through some kind of tinted glasses and you've been duped into thinking that people are being sent out here on any kind of mission which makes sense. Why do we support Saudi bombing of Yemen (who cares, eh!)? Why do we side with Saudi against Iran? If anything the Iranians are more civilized and educated, and closer to western values, than the Saudi's? Why don't we hold Saudi to account for the 9/11 bombers and the Bin Laden family? Why don't we take any moral stance on the treatment of women in Saudi?

It's like Woody Allen's "Crimes and Misdemeanors". You can get away with murder and cheat on your wife if you have money behind you. If you are some insignificant "citizen" you get a divorce for getting crumbs in the bed.

I think the Manning case is just about maintaining a false fascade on all this and has nothing to do with risk to anyone, other than notionally. Yes, she did what she did and should be punished, but that, to me, ignores the whole spectrum of issues thrown up by policy in these areas.
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13-09-2016, 11:07 PM
RE: Chelsea Manning suicide fast
Well, it's over - she will be allowed her reassignment surgery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37357959

I'm betting she sent out for pizza the moment they agreed. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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