Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
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19-09-2015, 07:42 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
Here’s a simple question.

Is there likely to be a neurochemical distinction between the beliefs you hold as true, but are actually false, and beliefs you hold as true, and are actually true?

Is it likely that one day we may be able to just look at the scans of a person’s brain, and tell by these scans which beliefs are actually true, and which are actually false?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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19-09-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
It's never a simple question with you. Dodgy

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19-09-2015, 07:47 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
At work.

Being a simple, blue collar worker and knowing what I know from documentaries and New Scientist articles......

My thoughts would be (Ha! I made a funny! Tongue ) that no, there are no differances in the neural patterns ( Not just nerou-chemicals) of 'True' thoughts and 'False' thoughts.

They are all 'Thoughts'/'Memories'/'Ideas'
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19-09-2015, 07:56 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
Eventually, there may be some distinction attempting to be made.

But for now there isn't a way to really view a difference. In fact, I can't recall specifics on what the cases were, but I know on multiple occasions I've heard and read about psychological/neuroscience examined studies that relate to this.

Where they would convince someone of a lie or find someone who believed something inaccurate. After they study people they test how they respond with this. Kinda sometimes planting false memories. Then they read the brains but after the test when they inform the person and explain it out how that wasn't real. That person still might show signs in the brain of believing it.

I know actually know this also related to Memories and Oliver Sacks talked about it before. How he realized he had this false memory of his dad during London WWII bombings in his adulthood but he still had the same feeling of it being real. Now when they would study people like this, where they know the info/memory/etc. isn't real when talking, but they still light up and feel like it is in the brain and can't always turn that off. This is probably rambling and somewhat out of touch with what really was happening in this results but it's basically the idea you speak of.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-09-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(19-09-2015 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Is there likely to be a neurochemical distinction between the beliefs you hold as true, but are actually false, and beliefs you hold as true, and are actually true?

Very likely not.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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19-09-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
I remember Matt Dillahaunty talking about a study that was done measuring brain function while talking about god vs talking about a fictional story vs talking about something real, and the part of the brain that was active while talking about god was the same as while talking about something fictional. Or something like that. If somebody is familiar with this study please post a link, I would like to learn more about it

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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19-09-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(19-09-2015 07:42 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Here’s a simple question.

Is there likely to be a neurochemical distinction between the beliefs you hold as true, but are actually false, and beliefs you hold as true, and are actually true?

Is it likely that one day we may be able to just look at the scans of a person’s brain, and tell by these scans which beliefs are actually true, and which are actually false?

There are electrical / neuro chemical paths for EVERY thought, true or not. Can you tell by one person's pathways what is externally true ? Of course not. Can/will they be able to tell if someone holds the "belief" to be true or not ? Quite probably.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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19-09-2015, 08:37 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(19-09-2015 08:28 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  I remember Matt Dillahaunty talking about a study that was done measuring brain function while talking about god vs talking about a fictional story vs talking about something real, and the part of the brain that was active while talking about god was the same as while talking about something fictional. Or something like that. If somebody is familiar with this study please post a link, I would like to learn more about it

Perhaps this -
Quote:Belief compared with disbelief

For both groups, and in both categories of stimuli, belief was associated with greater blood-oxygen-level-dependent (BOLD) signal in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (VMPFC, see Fig. 1, Table 1), an area important for self-representation [3], [4], [5], [6], emotional associations [7], reward [8], [9], [10], and goal-driven behavior [11]. This region showed greater signal whether subjects believed statements about God, the Virgin Birth, etc. or statements about ordinary facts. We also saw greater signal in the left superior frontal gyrus and in both lateral occipital cortices for this contrast.

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19-09-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
@Tomasia

It depends on the belief I would say. Are we talking about a genuine mistake like I think that «elephant don't eat people» (sometimes they do) based on the ignorance of a fact or repressed knowledge for example «my husband would never sexually assault our child»? In the first case there is no difference as far as we know and can observe the brain. In the second, certain portion of the brain normally not very solicited for that kind of task can be more active. Signs of lying like increase blood pressure, dilated pupil, facial micro-expressions, sweating, etc. can also be detected. The difficult part is that no brain is rigorously identical to another. It's pretty much impossible to have detailed knowledge of every single synaptic network of the brain and its significance. We could analyse your brain say that you love your wife by detecting the good neurochemical components and the activation of specific portion of the brain, but couldn’t tell how much, how and why. Mind reading isn't a reality, but mind probing is.
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19-09-2015, 08:56 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(19-09-2015 08:37 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(19-09-2015 08:28 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  I remember Matt Dillahaunty talking about a study that was done measuring brain function while talking about god vs talking about a fictional story vs talking about something real, and the part of the brain that was active while talking about god was the same as while talking about something fictional. Or something like that. If somebody is familiar with this study please post a link, I would like to learn more about it

Perhaps this -
Quote:Belief compared with disbelief

For both groups, and in both categories of stimuli, belief was associated with greater blood-oxygen-level-dependent (BOLD) signal in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex (VMPFC, see Fig. 1, Table 1), an area important for self-representation [3], [4], [5], [6], emotional associations [7], reward [8], [9], [10], and goal-driven behavior [11]. This region showed greater signal whether subjects believed statements about God, the Virgin Birth, etc. or statements about ordinary facts. We also saw greater signal in the left superior frontal gyrus and in both lateral occipital cortices for this contrast.

That might be the one, I'm not 100% on that

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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