Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
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20-09-2015, 10:46 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 10:40 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 10:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm not sure you keep assuming that computer brain or the mind is not making a series of observations. The computer might like a blind person in this scenario and not be able to observe the qualities of the sky. So when asking it as to whether the sky is blue or not, might render a response that it's unable to make that determination, as a result of it's ability to make an adequate observation.

And your point is...?

The point is that what it renders as true (not what it's unable to render as true, because of inadequate observations) would be actually true, and reducible to its circuitry.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-09-2015, 10:48 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 10:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The point is that what it renders as true (not what it's unable to render as true, because of inadequate observations) would be actually true, and reducible to its circuitry.

Except that it wouldn't.

We just went over this. The truth value of a given statement cannot be determined by the statement itself.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-09-2015, 10:53 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 10:48 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 10:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The point is that what it renders as true (not what it's unable to render as true, because of inadequate observations) would be actually true, and reducible to its circuitry.

Except that it wouldn't.

We just went over this. The truth value of a given statement cannot be determined by the statement itself.


The conclusion drawn by the observation it makes or has made in relationship to that statement does. Correct?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-09-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 10:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 10:48 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  The truth value of a given statement cannot be determined by the statement itself.

The conclusion drawn by the observation it makes or has made in relationship to that statement does. Correct?

"The conclusion drawn by the observation it makes or has made in relationship to that statement can be determined by the statement itself"?

Are you under the impression that you are speaking English?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-09-2015, 11:03 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 10:57 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 10:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The conclusion drawn by the observation it makes or has made in relationship to that statement does. Correct?

"The conclusion drawn by the observation it makes or has made in relationship to that statement can be determined by the statement itself"?

Are you under the impression that you are speaking English?

How do I determine if something is true?

Isn't it by making a series of observations, like the result of some test that I or others conducted, and insuring that they comply with the rules of the scientific method, the rules of logic, logical calculus, etc...?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-09-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
You determine the "truth" value of a statement by trying to determine if it conforms with the real world. That's all.
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20-09-2015, 11:09 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 11:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  How do I determine if something is true?

Compare it to the subject of the statement.

Everything else - the scientific method, rationality, logic, and so forth - are all just the tools that you use to do so.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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20-09-2015, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2015 11:18 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 08:27 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 06:37 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It might be for one mind, it might not be so for the other. In fact those mismatches are what someone might refer to as "non-evidence", not to be factored when considering the truth of something, like we might do so when reading about someone's personal experience, or we might do so when reading views expressed by non-scientist in regards to science, etc.... Mismatches here for some are not important.

Nope... not understanding you. Did you see the bit in the video I posted before about the door-knobs?

Here's something else that explains in more depth what I going on about...




After watching the video, I couldn't find anything about it that I would disagree with, and as result can't recognize what criticism it offers here. I can't say I understand everything in video well, which would likely require more than one viewing, and some more background reading. But nothing stuck out as objectionable.

Now I admit that I'm not sure how to properly translate the information in the video to what takes place when I read stuff, primarily in regards to what corresponds to a pattern, or a mismatch. But other than that It's not clear to me what I was supposed to take away, or what point I need acknowledging in it is. The mailability of the brain? Sure I acknowledge that.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-09-2015, 11:14 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 11:09 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(20-09-2015 11:03 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  How do I determine if something is true?

Compare it to the subject of the statement.

Everything else - the scientific method, rationality, logic, and so forth - are all just the tools that you use to do so.

So by doing as I said:

Isn't it by making a series of observations, like the result of some test that I or others conducted, and insuring that they comply with the rules of the scientific method, the rules of logic, logical calculus, etc...?

Though we can add: "after comparing the subject to the statement".

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-09-2015, 11:15 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(20-09-2015 11:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So by doing as I said:

Isn't it by making a series of observations, like the result of some test that I or others conducted, and insuring that they comply with the rules of the scientific method, the rules of logic, logical calculus, etc...?

No. It's by doing a test which you have ensured complies with those rules, then comparing the statement in question with the results of the test.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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