Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
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22-09-2015, 01:15 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2015 01:18 PM by Unbeliever.)
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ..Another meaningless series of objections by you, and by definition false.

Ah, no. Sorry. Pointing out that your premises do not lead to your desired conclusion is not meaningless or false.

(22-09-2015 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:It's a good thing that materialism is the only ontological position which is actually logical, then.

So far you haven't shown that it is.

The universe behaves in every way exactly as though it is material. Therefore, it is material. That's what "is" means.

Stating that it is of some other nature is grammatically incoherent.

(22-09-2015 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  But I'm gonna give you another argument I made earlier. One that chops off both of our heads. It would just require that you give up your belief in truth, and viability any mental picture of reality, to be accurate representation of it.

Ah. So it's useless, then, and by definition not at all reflective of reality.

A hint: any argument which requires that you "give up your belief in truth" is quite likely to be semantically worthless. Word games are not particularly compelling argumentation.

(22-09-2015 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's an argument in which truth is just an illusion. More a product of effective advertising than anything else:


http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid861107

That's not an argument. That's just an incoherent ramble which, yes, is utterly worthless because it plays games with the word "truth" until it loses all meaning, then declares that, because the author of the ramble was able to twist words this far, truth does not exist.

I would advise you to do some research on the subject of philosophical grammar before posting anything of this nature again. You're just making yourself look rather silly.

And you may want to look up the definition of "argument" as well. An argument generally has things which we call "premises", and these premises are meant to lead to what we refer to in the business as a "conclusion". You seem to suffer from an overabundance of premises, some of which are acceptable while others are complete tosh, but you also have a woeful lack of conclusions. Without those, it's rather hard to call anything you say an argument of any kind.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-09-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 03:36 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Minds that are not able to recognize the foundational truth of reality survived, in fact they are the predominant minds of all of human history.

Prove it. Citation needed.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-09-2015, 01:26 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2015 01:35 PM by Tomasia.)
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:15 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ..Another meaningless series of objections by you, and by definition false.

Ah, no. Sorry. Pointing out that your premises do not lead to your desired conclusion is not meaningless or false.

You keep repeating this, but you haven't actually shown me that it doesn't.

You just keep repeating that I can't conclude that based on that, without clearly making a remotely recognizable case for why not.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-09-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You keep repeating this, but you haven't actually shown me that it doesn't.

I'm afraid that isn't how this works.

It's your argument. It is your responsibility to establish a link between your premises and your conclusion.

Your premise is "functional minds exist". Your conclusion is "minds were designed".

There is no logical link between these two statements unless you claim that the only way that functional minds could come into existence is by design, which is the bare assertion fallacy at best. There is no demonstrable connection between the two statements. Your "argument" collapses on its face.

It is not my responsibility to refute an argument that you haven't even established yet.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-09-2015, 01:44 PM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:41 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 01:26 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  You keep repeating this, but you haven't actually shown me that it doesn't.

I'm afraid that isn't how this works.

It's your argument. It is your responsibility to establish a link between your premises and your conclusion.

Your premise is "functional minds exist". Your conclusion is "minds were designed".

There is no logical link between these two statements unless you claim that the only way that functional minds could come into existence is by design, which is the bare assertion fallacy at best. There is no demonstrable connection between the two statements. Your "argument" collapses on its face.

It is not my responsibility to refute an argument that you haven't even established yet.

There's your problem that's not my premise. I've repeated my premise to you several times already. Perhaps you should try and read back over it again.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-09-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:44 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's your problem that's not my premise.

Yes, because your premise adds some unnecessary and irrelevant nonsense about minds being able to "recognize the foundational nature of reality", which changes nothing about the fallacious nature of your argument.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-09-2015, 01:58 PM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:50 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 01:44 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's your problem that's not my premise.

Yes, because your premise adds some unnecessary and irrelevant nonsense about minds being able to "recognize the foundational nature of reality", which changes nothing about the fallacious nature of your argument.

By removing those aspects of my argument, it changes the argument entirely to one that I'm not making.

Though it does make a more convenient strawman for you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-09-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 01:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  By removing those aspects of my argument, it changes the argument entirely to one that I'm not making.

As I said previously, this is a pointless quibble. The added qualifier changes nothing about the fallacious nature of the argument. It is nothing more than a rather pointless appeal to mysticism.

If you disagree, then you should be able to show why this qualifier gets rid of the fallacies mentioned earlier.

But you can't, because it doesn't.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-09-2015, 02:51 PM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 02:39 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 01:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  By removing those aspects of my argument, it changes the argument entirely to one that I'm not making.

As I said previously, this is a pointless quibble. The added qualifier changes nothing about the fallacious nature of the argument. It is nothing more than a rather pointless appeal to mysticism.

If you disagree, then you should be able to show why this qualifier gets rid of the fallacies mentioned earlier.

But you can't, because it doesn't.

I see a string of words but can't figure out what they mean.

No, but seriously it's not even clear to me that you understand the premise, though I thought I tried to explain it to you on several occasions already even using a series of analogies to facilitate that.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-09-2015, 03:21 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(22-09-2015 02:51 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I see a string of words but can't figure out what they mean.

That even your modified premise does not solve the issues with your argument.

This is not complicated.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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