Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
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26-09-2015, 06:39 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
I mean, what's the alternative to brain chemistry dictating processes in the brain in your world? A sky wizard has a cloud storage device he houses our personality software on? Laugh out load

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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26-09-2015, 06:57 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 04:58 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
If the latter, is rational thinking reducible to physical forces acting on the neurochemistry of our brains?

What physical forces?

Gravity?

Huh

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26-09-2015, 07:23 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
The chemicals are produced by thought and emotion. Further thought and emotion is in turn caused by these chemicals. Further thought is possible via the chemicals and produces further chems. that in turn produce yet more chems and though.
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26-09-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(23-09-2015 07:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 06:18 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There in this line of skeptical approach a reason to treat it as another mind or NOT as another mind. There isn't a case to make it either way if your case is it can't be made the one way. It's something you couldn't be certain of with the mental representations.

Well I'm of the view that the truth speaks to us. That I am trying to harmonize a tune in my head, to one playing out there as well. That truth is not just an abstract concept in my head, but has an actual reality. That the mind can become one with the object of thought.

That is woo worthy of Deepak Chopra. Bowing

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-09-2015, 08:24 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 07:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Well I'm of the view that the truth speaks to us. That I am trying to harmonize a tune in my head, to one playing out there as well. That truth is not just an abstract concept in my head, but has an actual reality. That the mind can become one with the object of thought.

That is woo worthy of Deepak Chopra. Bowing

If it is false, then truth would just be a tune in our own heads. That whenever you read a series of propositions just as long it hits all the corresponding strings of your neurochemistry, you'll hold it as true, regardless if it's actually true or not.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-09-2015, 08:29 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 06:57 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 04:58 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
If the latter, is rational thinking reducible to physical forces acting on the neurochemistry of our brains?

What physical forces?

Gravity?

Huh

None of them right?

None of them would correspond to a movement of molecules, produced by what's referred to as rational thinking.

They might correspond to a movement of molecules in your brain, that produce a belief that something is rational, that it has the ring of something being rational to you. But that's about it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-09-2015, 08:47 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2015 09:09 AM by ClydeLee.)
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 08:24 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is woo worthy of Deepak Chopra. Bowing

That whenever you read a series of propositions just as long it hits all the corresponding strings of your neurochemistry, you'll hold it as true, regardless if it's actually true or not.

Precisely, which is why I've routinely told you it's all absurd, and really not sensible to hold positions certainly. There isn't any value in proclaiming to hold something as definitively true.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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26-09-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 08:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 06:57 AM)DLJ Wrote:  What physical forces?

Gravity?

Huh

None of them right?

None of them would correspond to a movement of molecules, produced by what's referred to as rational thinking.

They might correspond to a movement of molecules in your brain, that produce a belief that something is rational, that it has the ring of something being rational to you. But that's about it.

I think you need to give us the chemistry of 'thinking' before you deliver a verdict on 'rational thinking'.

Looking forward to it.

Big Grin

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26-09-2015, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2015 09:10 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 09:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I think you need to give us the chemistry of 'thinking' before you deliver a verdict on 'rational thinking'.

Looking forward to it.

Big Grin

And that criticism would make some sense, if someone subscribed to some form of dualism, or irreducibility, but it doesn't work if you don't.

But if we agree that we're just molecules in motion, governed by the laws of physics, that's not required. Because this sets the parameters for us already, for any conclusion, hypothesis, etc...

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-09-2015, 09:42 AM
Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(26-09-2015 09:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-09-2015 09:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I think you need to give us the chemistry of 'thinking' before you deliver a verdict on 'rational thinking'.

Looking forward to it.

Big Grin

And that criticism would make some sense, if someone subscribed to some form of dualism, or irreducibility, but it doesn't work if you don't.

But if we agree that we're just molecules in motion, governed by the laws of physics, that's not required. Because this sets the parameters for us already, for any conclusion, hypothesis, etc...

No. Chemistry works at the level of the atom and molecule. It can quite literally be reduced to that level and discussed forward (hence the reason we study chemistry).

So, what's the chemistry of "thought" and then how does it differ between rational and irrational thought?

And seriously, what's the alternative to your brain chemistry producing you? What's the matter with that?

A flatworm crawls along the bottom of my dissecting dish, it's not thinking. It can't "think" in any real sense of the word. But it still seems to have the free will to go wherever it wants in its search for food (which it locates using chemoreceptors that trigger impulses and actions. It's merely reacting to its environment. So do we, but our brains allow for a more complex interaction than just "eat" and "reproduce" because we posses an organ with chemistry that the flatworm doesn't have)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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