Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
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28-09-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 05:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  OK. Take a meat cleaver and chop off your hand. Is your bloody stump an interpretation or is it reality? Consider

I expect it to produce a distressing sensation, and that life would be discomforting and inconvenient with a loss of my hand. I draw from a variety of subjective experience of minor cuts and bruises that I've felt, and the personal experiences of a broken leg or a limb, by me or my friends, etc., and the inconveniences that arose from them, to imagine what it would feel like if I cut off my hand, and what life would be like afterwards. Since this doesn't seem very appealing, I avoid chopping off my hand.

Did I just use the scientific method?

Failed to answer the question: check.

Went off on an irrelevant tangent: check.

Completely nonsensical question: check.

Absolute and utter lack of an actual point: check.

Yup. That's genuine Tomasia-brand incoherence right there.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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28-09-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-09-2015 05:33 PM)Chas Wrote:  OK. Take a meat cleaver and chop off your hand. Is your bloody stump an interpretation or is it reality? Consider

I expect it to produce a distressing sensation, and that life would be discomforting and inconvenient with a loss of my hand. I draw from a variety of subjective experience of minor cuts and bruises that I've felt, and the personal experiences of a broken leg or a limb, by me or my friends, etc., and the inconveniences that arose from them, to imagine what it would feel like if I cut off my hand, and what life would be like afterwards. Since this doesn't seem very appealing, I avoid chopping off my hand.

Did I just use the scientific method?

No, all you did was form a testable hypothesis from observation. That is not the entirety of the scientific method.

And you also didn't answer Chas' question.

Is a subjective interpretation the same as an objective truth? Your toothbrush objectively exists. Your opinion on vanilla ice cream is irrelevant to reality in any sort of objective "truth" sort of way.

You believing something to be true, doesn't make it so. Even if you really...really...really believe it and really...really...really believe you've deduced that opinion scientifically (as you demonstrated, you don't actually understand the scientific method Drinking Beverage )

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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28-09-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 10:27 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 06:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I expect it to produce a distressing sensation, and that life would be discomforting and inconvenient with a loss of my hand. I draw from a variety of subjective experience of minor cuts and bruises that I've felt, and the personal experiences of a broken leg or a limb, by me or my friends, etc., and the inconveniences that arose from them, to imagine what it would feel like if I cut off my hand, and what life would be like afterwards. Since this doesn't seem very appealing, I avoid chopping off my hand.

Did I just use the scientific method?

Failed to answer the question: check.

Went off on an irrelevant tangent: check.

Completely nonsensical question: check.

Absolute and utter lack of an actual point: check.

Yup. That's genuine Tomasia-brand incoherence right there.

Beat me to the punch by mere seconds. Censored

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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28-09-2015, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2015 11:48 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 10:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is a subjective interpretation the same as an objective truth? Your toothbrush objectively exists. Your opinion on vanilla ice cream is irrelevant to reality in any sort of objective "truth" sort of way.

It's all just subjective interpretations. They're all just abstract representations of some external reality outside of our mind, which can only be conceived and represented in mental images, in terms of our mind. Everyone has their own view of this reality, shaped and formed, and led to it by a variety of historical forces on that person's life. They may have acquired later in life some terms like scientific, objective, and started labeling these subjective views they always had by these labels, but that's all just dressing.

It's all just a sham, a way to conceal your views of the world as something other than besides your own. It's just your belief that your own fractured, and confused abstraction of reality, is a faithful and true representation of it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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28-09-2015, 12:02 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's all just subjective interpretations. They're all just abstract representations of some external reality outside of our mind, which can only be conceived and represented in mental images, in terms of our mind. Everyone has their own view of this reality, shaped and formed, and led to it by a variety of historical forces on that person's life. They may have acquired later in life some terms like scientific, objective, and started labeling these subjective views they always had by these labels, but that's all just dressing.

It's all just a sham, a way to conceal your views of the world as something other than besides your own. It's just your belief that your own fractured, and confused abstraction of reality, is a faithful and true representation of it.

Yes, yes. That's all very nice.

I do hope you realize that it doesn't matter unless you can actually show how this interpretation is incorrect.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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28-09-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 10:28 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is a subjective interpretation the same as an objective truth? Your toothbrush objectively exists. Your opinion on vanilla ice cream is irrelevant to reality in any sort of objective "truth" sort of way.

It's all just subjective interpretations. They're all just abstract representations of some external reality outside of our mind, which can only be conceived and represented in mental images, in terms of our mind. Everyone has their own view of this reality, shaped and formed, and led to it by a variety of historical forces on that person's life. They may have acquired later in life some terms like scientific, objective, and started labeling these subjective views they always had by these labels, but that's all just dressing.

It's all just a sham, a way to conceal your views of the world as something other than besides your own. It's just your belief that your own fractured, and confused abstraction of reality, is a faithful and true representation of it.

"It's all just subjective interpretations. "

No. Reality is not a subjective interpretation. The universe is not a subjective interpretation. Descriptions of various aspects of it by humans might be, but not all descriptions of it are subjective as some things can be objectively measured and observed. Existence for one is NOT subjective. Nor is occurrence. Something either exists, or doesn't. Something either occurred, or didn't.

"It's just your belief that your own fractured, and confused abstraction of reality, is a faithful and true representation of it."

You have a warped view of reality filtered through the belief in supernature and supernatural beings.

I understand some aspects of reality and the universe and I understand enough to draw opinions and conclusions and formulate educated opinions that are consistent with reality. I do NOT assume the existence of something or occurrence of events based on a paucity of evidence, like theists do.

You are equivocating a whole steaming pile of shit together. It is almost impressively stupid. The universe minus life, is an objectively existing thing. It is only the human where the subjectivity can be introduced.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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28-09-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 12:02 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I do hope you realize that it doesn't matter unless you can actually show how this interpretation is incorrect.

How do you show Ken Ham that his view of the world is incorrect?

Your view of the world is not one independent of you, it is you. You're identify, your way of life, friendships, community you find is here, is all tied up to it. If you think you've transcended this limitations that has plagued man throughout his history, you're just lying to yourself.

In fact you seek refuge among those who you feel will safely reassure your views. When you express you views of reality, you say more about yourself, than you do of reality.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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28-09-2015, 12:19 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 12:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 12:02 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I do hope you realize that it doesn't matter unless you can actually show how this interpretation is incorrect.

How do you show Ken Ham that his view of the world is incorrect?

Your view of the world is not one independent of you, it is you. You're identify, your way of life, friendships, community you find is here, is all tied up to it. If you think you've transcended this limitations that has plagued man throughout his history, you're just lying to yourself.

In fact you seek refuge among those who you feel will safely reassure your views. When you express you views of reality, you say more about yourself, than you do of reality.

You are so far off in some bullshit land, you don't even seem to comprehend the posts in reply to you.

EVERYONE agrees that humans are subjective creatures. That does NOT mean all subjective opinions are equal. Some are flat-out bullshit and wrong and inconsistent with reality. Like ANY god beliefs posited by religions. They are subjective interpretations of reality that are flat out fucking wrong.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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28-09-2015, 12:20 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 12:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(28-09-2015 12:02 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I do hope you realize that it doesn't matter unless you can actually show how this interpretation is incorrect.

How do you show Ken Ham that his view of the world is incorrect?

Your view of the world is not one independent of you, it is you. You're identify, your way of life, friendships, community you find is here, is all tied up to it. If you think you've transcended this limitations that has plagued man throughout his history, you're just lying to yourself.

In fact you seek refuge among those who you feel will safely reassure your views. When you express you views of reality, you say more about yourself, than you do of reality.

I would say take him directly to various labs and field tests over the time exposing direct studying of dating and material gathering information to explain how consistencies of examination in this method show solid results.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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28-09-2015, 12:26 PM
RE: Chemicals in the Brain and Truth.
(28-09-2015 12:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  How do you show Ken Ham that his view of the world is incorrect?

By comparing it to reality.

(28-09-2015 12:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Your view of the world is not one independent of you, it is you.

You have an odd definition of "you".

(28-09-2015 12:16 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you think you've transcended this limitations that has plagued man throughout his history, you're just lying to yourself.

What limitations? You haven't established any. All you've done is point out, rather tautologically, that all information processed by brains is processed by brains.

You have not in any way demonstrated that we cannot understand reality because of this. It's the same nonsense about belief and truth that you got so tangled up in just a bit ago; yes, some people can believe untrue things, but this doesn't mean that there is no such thing as truth.

You can believe two plus two equals six all you like, but that doesn't make it any less objectively wrong.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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