Chi
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02-02-2017, 06:04 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 02:18 PM)Kandall Wrote:  Hello fellow atheist, i am new to this forum, and this is my first post, so i appologize for any mistakes ive made on this post. Let me start this by stating that i identify as an evangelical atheist. I do not believe in anything unobservable, or incapable of demonstration.
However i also identify as a taoist (in terms of philosophy, NOT religion). As a taoist im interested in the concept of "chi", which at first contradicted parts of my atheist perception, but i now find myself unconvinced that chi is a religious concept. i would like to ask some fellow atheists to offer thoughts and/or facts on the validity (or invalidity) of chi.

If you are not aware of what chi is, here is, in my honest opinion, a completely reasonable approach to understanding and actually observing chi.
https://youtu.be/vcp6J1T60qc

What is Chi?
What scientific equipment is used to measure it?
What characteristics does it have e.g. temperature, frequency, intensity, direction, force (as in newtons)?
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02-02-2017, 06:05 PM
RE: Chi
I can't imagine having an hour and 18 minutes of free time that I'd be willing to devote to watching a video on chi anytime between now and when I retire, but having been involved in various forms of martial arts most of my life, all of which seem to incorporate their miscellaneous versions of chi, later tonight when my kids are in bed I'll try to come back and give a more in depth version on why I consider it a placebo, and why I think believing in it produces real results for people even if it is in fact not real.

'Murican Canadian
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02-02-2017, 06:06 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 05:59 PM)Kandall Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of chi. Or chakras. My opinion is that it is mystical nonsense.

As an atheist, i used to feel the same way. But i can no longer say that chi is has any mystical nonsense. It can be replicated and accounted for by the average person across all cultures and geographical boundaries

Citation needed tard.
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02-02-2017, 06:13 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 05:58 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 05:49 PM)Kandall Wrote:  Not any more than i would define evolution

You're a fucking idiot.
There is mountains and mountains of evidence for evolution. Fucking mountains.

There is zero evidence for chi or chakras or mystical healing crystals that can cure your negative karma zones and balance the ph levels of your fucking aura.

So if by "not any more than evolution" you mean there's literal mountains of evidence to support all this mystical hippy bullshit then please provide it.

Chill dude, im open to being an idiot, thats why i posted this thread. I do not have the ability to read the origin of species, thats beyond my intellect. I agree with u that evolution has mountains and mountains of evidence, but so does gravity, so do many other laws. The video i presented to everyone here offers some (not mountains of) evidence. So am i suppose to ignore this account for chi, because it doesnt have as much evidence as other laws such as evolution? I apologize for comparing chi (something that obviously doesnt sit well with you) with something you are very passionate about.

You dont need to defend evolution to me
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02-02-2017, 06:42 PM (This post was last modified: 02-02-2017 06:53 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 05:59 PM)Kandall Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of chi. Or chakras. My opinion is that it is mystical nonsense.

As an atheist, i used to feel the same way. But i can no longer say that chi is has any mystical nonsense. It can be replicated and accounted for by the average person across all cultures and geographical boundaries

I would agree that many cultures have their version of chi (i.e."energy" within the body or "life force" or soul...obviously terminology differs from culture to culture). But these same cultures also have their versions of gods. That doesn't make god(s) real, it just shows that we are wired to be predisposed to a belief in god(s) via apophenia, pattern making, and a tendency to anthropomorphize. Andy Thomson has a great lecture on Why We Believe in Gods (available on youtube).

The idea of a life force is not that much different. We all have emotions, when we get sad, scared, happy, are in love, whatever, we feel it on the inside. It's the human experience, so not surprising several or many cultures would have a name for this "energy" or "feeling" etc. And also not surprising that many cultures could observe that when things are out of balance in someone's life, things can go awry whether it's health or relationships and so on.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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02-02-2017, 06:49 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 06:13 PM)Kandall Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 05:58 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're a fucking idiot.
There is mountains and mountains of evidence for evolution. Fucking mountains.

There is zero evidence for chi or chakras or mystical healing crystals that can cure your negative karma zones and balance the ph levels of your fucking aura.

So if by "not any more than evolution" you mean there's literal mountains of evidence to support all this mystical hippy bullshit then please provide it.

Chill dude, im open to being an idiot, thats why i posted this thread. I do not have the ability to read the origin of species, thats beyond my intellect. I agree with u that evolution has mountains and mountains of evidence, but so does gravity, so do many other laws. The video i presented to everyone here offers some (not mountains of) evidence. So am i suppose to ignore this account for chi, because it doesnt have as much evidence as other laws such as evolution? I apologize for comparing chi (something that obviously doesnt sit well with you) with something you are very passionate about.

You dont need to defend evolution to me

Don't take it personally, that's just how he talks. It means he likes you.

'Murican Canadian
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02-02-2017, 07:12 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 02:35 PM)yakherder Wrote:  The short version of my opinion is that chi is a placebo.

The "placebo effect" is a real effect.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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02-02-2017, 07:34 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 05:59 PM)Kandall Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 04:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no evidence of chi. Or chakras. My opinion is that it is mystical nonsense.

As an atheist, i used to feel the same way. But i can no longer say that chi is has any mystical nonsense. It can be replicated and accounted for by the average person across all cultures and geographical boundaries

I would call this syncretism, not replication.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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02-02-2017, 07:42 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 07:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 02:35 PM)yakherder Wrote:  The short version of my opinion is that chi is a placebo.

The "placebo effect" is a real effect.

The effect is real, but it is not dependent on the perceived medicine (or whatever else is being tested) being real. That's why I view it as a suitable analogy to chi. Believing in chi can in fact guide one to performing advanced feats or reaching deep levels of meditation whether chi actually exists or not.

'Murican Canadian
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02-02-2017, 07:53 PM
RE: Chi
(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)yakherder Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 07:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The "placebo effect" is a real effect.

The effect is real, but it is not dependent on the perceived medicine (or whatever else is being tested) being real. That's why I view it as a suitable analogy to chi. Believing in chi can in fact guide one to performing advanced feats or reaching deep levels of meditation whether chi actually exists or not.

And you have evidence that the effect is achieved *without* the "perceived" cause ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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