Chicken or the Egg?
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17-04-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
Why are some people talking about dinosaur eggs? That makes no sense. I am very aware of the evolutionary lineage of birds and dinosaurs, so don't respond with that.

The question is: which came first, the chicken or the chicken egg?

The research found a specific protein that is unique to chicken eggs. This protein is formed in the ovary's of the chicken, so the chicken had to have the ability to produce the protein before the first "true" chicken egg was formed. Hence, the chicken came before the chicken egg. The study cites ovocleidin-17 as the protein, but other proteins are specific to chickens, such as ovocalyxin-36.


The paper's abstract can be found here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.10...9/abstract

Although the researchers weren't out to answer the specific question of which came first, the data they found made it possible to make the inference.
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17-04-2014, 09:06 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
I don't think it matters, it's just a fucking saying after all.
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17-04-2014, 09:26 AM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2014 09:30 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 09:01 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  The research found a specific protein that is unique to chicken eggs. This protein is formed in the ovary's of the chicken, so the chicken had to have the ability to produce the protein before the first "true" chicken egg was formed. Hence, the chicken came before the chicken egg. The study cites ovocleidin-17 as the protein, but other proteins are specific to chickens, such as ovocalyxin-36.

Incorrect. All you've done is try to establish a demarcation line between 'modern' chicken eggs and earlier chicken eggs; both are still chicken eggs, both still laid and hatched by chickens and they both still gave rise to even more chickens. I could just as easily argue that a 'modern' chicken was first required that could produce the protein necessary for the 'modern' chicken eggs; it gets you nowhere... Drinking Beverage


Look at this image. For those of you potentially suffering from some form of colorblindness, this is a gradient shift that moves from red at the top to blue at the bottom. This is meant to illustrate that in evolution, every child is just another (albeit slightly varied) version of whatever it's parents were, and there is never a clear demarcation line between the rise of one species within a population.

[Image: stock_gradient_red_blue_by_einstud-d37scl4.jpg]

What's my point? Trying to determine whichever came first is about as fruitful as trying to determine exactly where the color violet lies on this gradient.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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17-04-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 09:06 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't think it matters, it's just a fucking saying after all.

I'm pretty sure there won't ever be a concensus on this in the end;

I was more frustrated of getting blindsided with a room of creationists and not really knowing what else to say.

But I still have a job so I guess I did the right thing.
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17-04-2014, 09:44 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
I suppose the best answer would have been to say "neither" and not add any form of explanation.

No one would have coughed "Bullshit", the boss, not actually interested in what came first but just wanting it to get people thinking would have quickly moved on and may have made a mental note to himself to ask better questions in future, the OP would still have been correct but would not have been left feeling frustrated.
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17-04-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
Mmmyes.... well, the next time someone does the "coughbullshit" at the mere mention of evolution, just point them out and say, "Ah... that must be someone who's decided to not evolve.". Wink

Might shut them up and give you some space. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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17-04-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 09:47 AM)kim Wrote:  Mmmyes.... well, the next time someone does the "coughbullshit" at the mere mention of evolution, just point them out and say, "Ah... that must be someone who's decided to not evolve.". Wink

Might shut them up and give you some space. Drinking Beverage

Laugh out load Wonderful
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17-04-2014, 09:59 AM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 08:12 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(17-04-2014 08:05 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A chicken is an actual chicken while an egg is only a potential chicken. Actuality precedes potentiality. Remember a sale is only a potential sale until the product is actually delivered.

Total BS but interesting sounding enough to confound the business majors for a while.

I thought this cunt was banned?

Sorry Asshole.....but you thought wrong.
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17-04-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 09:59 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(17-04-2014 08:12 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I thought this cunt was banned?

Sorry Asshole.....but you thought wrong.

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Don't worry muffs, every forum needs it's whipping boy... Drinking Beverage

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17-04-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Chicken or the Egg?
(17-04-2014 09:26 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-04-2014 09:01 AM)jaguar3030 Wrote:  The research found a specific protein that is unique to chicken eggs. This protein is formed in the ovary's of the chicken, so the chicken had to have the ability to produce the protein before the first "true" chicken egg was formed. Hence, the chicken came before the chicken egg. The study cites ovocleidin-17 as the protein, but other proteins are specific to chickens, such as ovocalyxin-36.

Incorrect. All you've done is try to establish a demarcation line between 'modern' chicken eggs and earlier chicken eggs; both are still chicken eggs, both still laid and hatched by chickens and they both still gave rise to even more chickens. I could just as easily argue that a 'modern' chicken was first required that could produce the protein necessary for the 'modern' chicken eggs; it gets you nowhere... Drinking Beverage

I think we are going around in circles. I do not see how I am incorrect. Eggs from other fowl do not contain this protein. Eggs from chickens do contain this protein.

I am not following your train of thought, though. If I substitute humans for chickens, we get:

All you've done is try to establish a demarcation line between 'modern' humans and earlier humans; both are still humans, both still born by humans and they both still gave rise to even more humans.

And as for your gradient example, we could look at the wavelengths of the colors and find exactly where that line of demarcations exists, yes?
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