Poll: Are Child Limit Laws moral, and should we use them?
Child limit laws are immoral.
Child limit laws are immoral, but need to be enforced.
Child limit laws are not immoral, and need to be enforced.
The earth is not overpopulated, continue with status quo.
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Child Limit Laws
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28-03-2012, 02:24 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:22 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Wait... are you suggesting imposed sterilizations?

Did I read that correctly?


It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm not usually one to be at a loss for words but I just can't believe that what I'm reading is an actual human thought.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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28-03-2012, 02:32 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
It's definitely true that it's a problem, and that the problem won't go away, it's only going to get worse. With better resource management we might be able to support a higher population but that will take time to implement. If we don't do something then most people's quality of life will necessarily go down, poverty will increase to drastic levels. With more poverty comes lack of education so the whole thing is forced even harder to the population boom scenario. That's how it is.

I don't really see an apocalypse happening - at least not a sudden one. But over the course of 20 years or so I see things going downhill slowly but surely. Not sure even if everyone acts now with will power that anything can be done about it.
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28-03-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2012 02:38 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:20 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 02:12 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  We are at 7 billion + and counting atm.

The estimates I saw suggest that we can sustain 2 billion on one earth. Wasting resources may be one problem, but I question just how low quality of life would need to be to sustain 7 billion people on this planet and maintain neutral resource depletion.

Of course its a problem you can fix....the solution is right there.

Why would sterilizing people be such a bad thing again? One little snip, and your done. A week's inconvenience at most.



OMG stop it dude. Just stop. You think that it's okay for the government to enforce male or female sterilization based on the number of children you have? Please say you don't or I'll lose faith in humanity.

God it's like conversing with Hitler.
You would only have to enforce such a thing if the people refused to stop having kids.
Most people would likely follow the law, because a lot of Americans only have 1-2 kids anyways.

The alternative is to cause an apocalyptic event where the entire planet starves and dies of dehydration. You think this is a better scenario?

Child limit laws fixes every global problem we are faced with today, including climate change.
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28-03-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
And forced sterilization? Is it really such an anathema? We do it to cats Tongue Is it so vital that your wang should be capable of impregnating people? I mean I guess otherwise it's just decorative Tongue We're just throwing ideas around here... suggested alternatives to forced sterilization?
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28-03-2012, 02:39 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  And forced sterilization? Is it really such an anathema? We do it to cats Tongue Is it so vital that your wang should be capable of impregnating people? I mean I guess otherwise it's just decorative Tongue We're just throwing ideas around here... suggested alternatives to forced sterilization?
The moon.

Mars.

Europa.

[Image: vjp09.gif]
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28-03-2012, 02:40 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  And forced sterilization? Is it really such an anathema? We do it to cats Tongue Is it so vital that your wang should be capable of impregnating people? I mean I guess otherwise it's just decorative Tongue We're just throwing ideas around here... suggested alternatives to forced sterilization?


Is that supposed to be a justification? Fertility isn't the issue and we aren't cats. Please tell me you aren't making excused for or agreeing with this nonsense. How can it be okay, for any reason, for the government to force you to have a surgery? Any kind of surgery.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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28-03-2012, 02:51 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
Mon ami, I do not make excuses (curls mustache). I say what I think.

I repeat, is it really so bad? Not necessarily even forced sterilization if you don't want that. Just make it illegal to have another kid. And voluntary sterilization gives a tax break, while extra kids have heavy tax penalties.

I don't get why we can't discuss this. This is a topical issue which needs to be addressed. We have to consider even radical alternatives *because the problem is fucking huge*. You are free to provide a better idea if you have one.

What do you suggest is a good course of action, given world population as it is? Do you think that we can ignore this, is it a hyped up non problem? My feeling on these questions is that the problem is there and urgently needs solving.
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28-03-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  Mon ami, I do not make excuses (curls mustache). I say what I think.

I repeat, is it really so bad? Not necessarily even forced sterilization if you don't want that. Just make it illegal to have another kid. And voluntary sterilization gives a tax break, while extra kids have heavy tax penalties.

I don't get why we can't discuss this. This is a topical issue which needs to be addressed. We have to consider even radical alternatives *because the problem is fucking huge*. You are free to provide a better idea if you have one.

What do you suggest is a good course of action, given world population as it is? Do you think that we can ignore this, is it a hyped up non problem? My feeling on these questions is that the problem is there and urgently needs solving.


Off the top of my head I don't have a viable alternative or solution to the problem. But mandated sterilization is so unbelievable I can't imagine why it would even be brought up as a solution worth discussing. If it was something as minor as removal of the child tax credit I could explore that option but this is lucradis.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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28-03-2012, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2012 03:10 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 02:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 02:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  And forced sterilization? Is it really such an anathema? We do it to cats Tongue Is it so vital that your wang should be capable of impregnating people? I mean I guess otherwise it's just decorative Tongue We're just throwing ideas around here... suggested alternatives to forced sterilization?
The moon.

Mars.

Europa.
We are going to keep breeding like a pack of rabbits on earth, and just send the excess people to the moon and mars?!?
Idk what Europa is but those are fairly tale solutions. That is as absurd as Rick Sanatorum's solution for our depleting Helium on earth. Mine the moon for helium instead of just stop wasting it on earth....

You are not going to put people on another planet or even the moon, and consume less resources. Even if we could terraform mars, which is a bit of a stretch of the imagination atm, it would take a very very long time.

(28-03-2012 03:04 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(28-03-2012 02:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  Mon ami, I do not make excuses (curls mustache). I say what I think.

I repeat, is it really so bad? Not necessarily even forced sterilization if you don't want that. Just make it illegal to have another kid. And voluntary sterilization gives a tax break, while extra kids have heavy tax penalties.

I don't get why we can't discuss this. This is a topical issue which needs to be addressed. We have to consider even radical alternatives *because the problem is fucking huge*. You are free to provide a better idea if you have one.

What do you suggest is a good course of action, given world population as it is? Do you think that we can ignore this, is it a hyped up non problem? My feeling on these questions is that the problem is there and urgently needs solving.


Off the top of my head I don't have a viable alternative or solution to the problem. But mandated sterilization is so unbelievable I can't imagine why it would even be brought up as a solution worth discussing. If it was something as minor as removal of the child tax credit I could explore that option but this is lucradis.
That is because there isn't one. Child limit laws are the only solution. Again, what is so bad about sterilization? Like I said, it would only need to be used in an example where people break the law.


China is already at that point, the rest of the world isn't far behind.
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28-03-2012, 03:19 PM
RE: Child Limit Laws
(28-03-2012 03:04 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Off the top of my head I don't have a viable alternative or solution to the problem. But mandated sterilization is so unbelievable I can't imagine why it would even be brought up as a solution worth discussing. If it was something as minor as removal of the child tax credit I could explore that option but this is lucradis.
We are all talking off the top of our heads here Wink It's not like any of us have studied this stuff in detail, although the OP said something about ecology which makes me think he might have something more to add.

Let's agree that
(a) Unchecked, world population will grow until we run out of resources.
(b) We are running out of resources already, although possibly with better management we could extend our lifeline a bit longer.

Also let's agree that any action taken is going to have to result in at least maintaining the stability of current world population, ideally result in a gradual lowering of world population to more manageable levels? Although if we max out on everything and get some very good management in place we could support sustainably a higher population than now (I read this somewhere, but I'll accept it as true), it seems prudent to leave some give in the system, so let's say an ideal world population of 5 billion, maybe achieved by 2050.

To keep things stable, that means an average of 2 kids per couple max - even this will grow world population because couples don't die as soon as they produce kids, so 2 kids = 4 people around for at least the next 20 years or so.

To drive population down it needs to be limited even further.

Whatever solution is chosen must be implemented on a global scale, otherwise it will be ineffective. Maybe different countries could pursue different strategies but in the end results are what count.

This is a very difficult problem. Politics, freedom.. a lot of very hard to navigate areas. Forced sterilization is the easy option that jumps out but it has a very high barrier to implement it.

Frankly my feeling is like every other problem we have (pollution etc) whatever solution we implement will be half assed and too late.
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