Child Sexual Abuse
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10-12-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 02:20 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 02:15 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Thanks for the kind words. I've been dealing the issue of my abuse for about 20 years. I have thought along the lines you suggest. Being abused did have a role in making me the person I am today. and I can't change what happened.

I won't elaborate on any of my bad experiences because I don't want to make this about me. I have dealt with my past and now every day I wake up happy and full of life. I think I am the most fortunate person in the world.

You will get there some day too. You seem like a reasonable and logical person, so I think it's only a matter of time before grab the bull by the horns again and/or dance like nobody is watching.

Thumbsup

Thanks! LOL. Don't get me wrong. I do love my life with my wife and young son. I have a blast with them both... Well, most of the time I have a blast with my wife.... okay, some of the time. If you're married, I'm sure you know what I mean, lol. But, seriously, she's always been very supportive.

It's just difficult to work out what's my problem, what are other people's problems, and what is just my personality.... It's just kinda frustrating at times.
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10-12-2013, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 02:58 PM by Free.)
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 02:26 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 02:20 PM)Free Wrote:  I won't elaborate on any of my bad experiences because I don't want to make this about me. I have dealt with my past and now every day I wake up happy and full of life. I think I am the most fortunate person in the world.

You will get there some day too. You seem like a reasonable and logical person, so I think it's only a matter of time before grab the bull by the horns again and/or dance like nobody is watching.

Thumbsup

Thanks! LOL. Don't get me wrong. I do love my life with my wife and young son. I have a blast with them both... Well, most of the time I have a blast with my wife.... okay, some of the time. If you're married, I'm sure you know what I mean, lol. But, seriously, she's always been very supportive.

It's just difficult to work out what's my problem, what are other people's problems, and what is just my personality.... It's just kinda frustrating at times.

Well then, let's take a look at one of your other comments and see if there's more to it than you realize.

"One of my brothers told me that I was abused and he wasn't, because he was "tougher" than I was, and no one would have dared try it with him. I've since disowned him. I can't think of any situation where a comment like that could be excused. "

You know what I see here? I see "betrayal." I see him mocking you. I see him emasculating you.

But you want to know what I also see here? I see a very deep seated love you have for your brother and that is a big problem. You still love your brother despite his actions, and this love you have is always in contention with the act of betrayal.

It's not unlike when a man or a woman betrays the love of each other, really. Betrayal of love is very damaging indeed regardless of how it happens.

If he was a kid at the time he made those comments, then perhaps you just need to shrug it off and say, "Meh ... he was dumb kid at the time, what the fuck did he know?"

But if he was an adult when he said that, then you need to face him and tell him how he made you feel. You need to do this to restore your sense of masculinity in his eyes, and demonstrate to him that you are more of a man than his narrow minded brain can see. And if it comes to blows, kick his fucking ass.

Yep, you heard me right. Kick his fucking ass.

Earn your respect from him, win or lose. Even if he wins, he will never see you as someone who was "not tough enough" again, I assure you.

I kicked my older brother's ass once ... and now we love each other more than ever.

But if it does not come to blows, and he apologizes, then forgive him and let the love come again. Regardless whether you kick his ass or end up in a hug, I guarantee you the love will be restored and the sense of betrayal will vanish.

You need to do this for you. Why? Because you are DONE taking any more bullshit from anybody.

Thumbsup

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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10-12-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
I wonder if its maybe you are able to keep your emotions in check, and think things thru logically while debating but your opponent is responding on an emotional level, maybe unprepared to spar on things they hold near and dear to their hearts.


Be excellent to each other and party on, Dudes!
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10-12-2013, 08:05 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 08:17 PM by anonymous66.)
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 02:52 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 02:26 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Thanks! LOL. Don't get me wrong. I do love my life with my wife and young son. I have a blast with them both... Well, most of the time I have a blast with my wife.... okay, some of the time. If you're married, I'm sure you know what I mean, lol. But, seriously, she's always been very supportive.

It's just difficult to work out what's my problem, what are other people's problems, and what is just my personality.... It's just kinda frustrating at times.

Well then, let's take a look at one of your other comments and see if there's more to it than you realize.

"One of my brothers told me that I was abused and he wasn't, because he was "tougher" than I was, and no one would have dared try it with him. I've since disowned him. I can't think of any situation where a comment like that could be excused. "

You know what I see here? I see "betrayal." I see him mocking you. I see him emasculating you.

But you want to know what I also see here? I see a very deep seated love you have for your brother and that is a big problem. You still love your brother despite his actions, and this love you have is always in contention with the act of betrayal.

It's not unlike when a man or a woman betrays the love of each other, really. Betrayal of love is very damaging indeed regardless of how it happens.

If he was a kid at the time he made those comments, then perhaps you just need to shrug it off and say, "Meh ... he was dumb kid at the time, what the fuck did he know?"

But if he was an adult when he said that, then you need to face him and tell him how he made you feel. You need to do this to restore your sense of masculinity in his eyes, and demonstrate to him that you are more of a man than his narrow minded brain can see. And if it comes to blows, kick his fucking ass.

Yep, you heard me right. Kick his fucking ass.

Earn your respect from him, win or lose. Even if he wins, he will never see you as someone who was "not tough enough" again, I assure you.

I kicked my older brother's ass once ... and now we love each other more than ever.

But if it does not come to blows, and he apologizes, then forgive him and let the love come again. Regardless whether you kick his ass or end up in a hug, I guarantee you the love will be restored and the sense of betrayal will vanish.

You need to do this for you. Why? Because you are DONE taking any more bullshit from anybody.

Thumbsup

Thanks again. Yes, absolutely, I felt betrayed by my brother when he said that it was my fault I was abused. I did a lot for him when we were kids (I'm older), and when we were adults. I thought I wanted to always try and do my best to be sure we would both get along.. I thought I owed it to him because we were brothers. We were both adults when he made the comment about the abuse. I defended myself at the time... something I regret.. I regret even giving his suggestion a second thought.. it's disgusting to blame a child for their abuse. About 10 years later (and about a year ago) I publicly confronted him via an email sent to all my family members. He denied it even happened... I told him never to contact me again. He lives far away, so I don't think it will be an issue. There is no reason to take crap like that from anyone.

Even though not one person came to my defense when I wrote the email and it has caused my dad some pain... I still think it was the right thing to do.
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10-12-2013, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 09:09 PM by Free.)
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 08:05 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 02:52 PM)Free Wrote:  Well then, let's take a look at one of your other comments and see if there's more to it than you realize.

"One of my brothers told me that I was abused and he wasn't, because he was "tougher" than I was, and no one would have dared try it with him. I've since disowned him. I can't think of any situation where a comment like that could be excused. "

You know what I see here? I see "betrayal." I see him mocking you. I see him emasculating you.

But you want to know what I also see here? I see a very deep seated love you have for your brother and that is a big problem. You still love your brother despite his actions, and this love you have is always in contention with the act of betrayal.

It's not unlike when a man or a woman betrays the love of each other, really. Betrayal of love is very damaging indeed regardless of how it happens.

If he was a kid at the time he made those comments, then perhaps you just need to shrug it off and say, "Meh ... he was dumb kid at the time, what the fuck did he know?"

But if he was an adult when he said that, then you need to face him and tell him how he made you feel. You need to do this to restore your sense of masculinity in his eyes, and demonstrate to him that you are more of a man than his narrow minded brain can see. And if it comes to blows, kick his fucking ass.

Yep, you heard me right. Kick his fucking ass.

Earn your respect from him, win or lose. Even if he wins, he will never see you as someone who was "not tough enough" again, I assure you.

I kicked my older brother's ass once ... and now we love each other more than ever.

But if it does not come to blows, and he apologizes, then forgive him and let the love come again. Regardless whether you kick his ass or end up in a hug, I guarantee you the love will be restored and the sense of betrayal will vanish.

You need to do this for you. Why? Because you are DONE taking any more bullshit from anybody.

Thumbsup

Thanks again. Yes, absolutely, I felt betrayed by my brother when he said that it was my fault I was abused. I did a lot for him when we were kids (I'm older), and when we were adults. I thought I wanted to always try and do my best to be sure we would both get along.. I thought I owed it to him because we were brothers. We were both adults when he made the comment about the abuse. I defended myself at the time... something I regret.. I regret even giving his suggestion a second thought.. it's disgusting to blame a child for their abuse. About 10 years later (and about a year ago) I publicly confronted him via an email sent to all my family members. He denied it even happened... I told him never to contact me again. He lives far away, so I don't think it will be an issue. There is no reason to take crap like that from anyone.

To me at least, it appears that a very good reason why your brother would deny it even happened is because he's too embarrassed by his juvenile remarks to admit to it. This embarrassment could only come from his sense of right and wrong, so he without any doubt knows how very wrong he was.

Now he's dealing with his own guilt about it all. You publicly embarrassed him so he would now also be angry with you as well as you being angry with him.

So let me ask you a rhetorical question.

Do you think all the anger you have towards him is doing you any good?

We both know that harboring some pent up anger does nobody any good. So you need to get rid of it. It's the kind of anger that can get you acting out hypothetical situations either physically or mentally in which you imagine confronting your brother face to face with nothing but negative results ensuing.

You and your brother both know he said something stupid. Believe it or not, his act of denial is sure evidence that he already knows how stupid he was for saying it, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to hide the fact.

So now you know that he knows how wrong he was. You don't even need him to admit it with words, because his action of denial is evidence enough.

Therefore, what is left to be angry about? You want him to apologize? That can't happen if you stay estranged, and if you intend to stay estranged then the only other option is take what you already got- his denial as evidence- then shrug your shoulders and simply say, "Fuck it. Time to move on."

So move on from all this useless baggage that is dragging you down. Let all the anger go because all it does is keep you firmly rooted in the ugliness that is your past, and inhibits the future happiness that you and your family should have from now unto the future.

It's time for you to take back control of your happiness. All you need to do is reach out and take it.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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11-12-2013, 12:50 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 01:05 AM by Gordon.)
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
Anonynous66,

It sounds to me a lot like post traumatic stress. I'm not a psychologist; I can't diagnose you, but it sure seems this event has colored your whole life and made it impossible for you to really be social with other people, or at least that's how it seems to be.

It sounds to me like you want to emerge as a person, but this event has thrown a big wet blanket on all of that. Bruce Springteen wrote a lyric in the song "Born in the USA" that goes: ...end up like a dog that's been beat too much, till you spend half your life just covering up.

That's post traumatic stress. He was singing about combat in Vietnam, but in your case it's sexual abuse.

I sure wish it hadn't happened to you. I sure wish it had not. I'm not a psychologist; I'm an astrologer. All I can offer is to do your chart for free and perhaps we cand find some way forward for you. I would do this for you in my forum, and since you're anonymous, it wouldn't reflect on you. All I would need is your Birth date, time, and place. I don't even need your name.

If you would feel more comfortable, we could do it in this forum. I don't know if they would allow it, but maybe we could find out.

It's up to you, chief. But either way, I hope you can find a way forward, even if this event forced you onto another path in your life.

Good luck, Anon66. [Image: consoling-smiley.gif]

Hell, you should have a cool song dedicated to you...



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11-12-2013, 07:51 AM
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 08:33 PM)Free Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 08:05 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  Thanks again. Yes, absolutely, I felt betrayed by my brother when he said that it was my fault I was abused. I did a lot for him when we were kids (I'm older), and when we were adults. I thought I wanted to always try and do my best to be sure we would both get along.. I thought I owed it to him because we were brothers. We were both adults when he made the comment about the abuse. I defended myself at the time... something I regret.. I regret even giving his suggestion a second thought.. it's disgusting to blame a child for their abuse. About 10 years later (and about a year ago) I publicly confronted him via an email sent to all my family members. He denied it even happened... I told him never to contact me again. He lives far away, so I don't think it will be an issue. There is no reason to take crap like that from anyone.

To me at least, it appears that a very good reason why your brother would deny it even happened is because he's too embarrassed by his juvenile remarks to admit to it. This embarrassment could only come from his sense of right and wrong, so he without any doubt knows how very wrong he was.

Now he's dealing with his own guilt about it all. You publicly embarrassed him so he would now also be angry with you as well as you being angry with him.

So let me ask you a rhetorical question.

Do you think all the anger you have towards him is doing you any good?

We both know that harboring some pent up anger does nobody any good. So you need to get rid of it. It's the kind of anger that can get you acting out hypothetical situations either physically or mentally in which you imagine confronting your brother face to face with nothing but negative results ensuing.

You and your brother both know he said something stupid. Believe it or not, his act of denial is sure evidence that he already knows how stupid he was for saying it, otherwise he wouldn't be trying to hide the fact.

So now you know that he knows how wrong he was. You don't even need him to admit it with words, because his action of denial is evidence enough.

Therefore, what is left to be angry about? You want him to apologize? That can't happen if you stay estranged, and if you intend to stay estranged then the only other option is take what you already got- his denial as evidence- then shrug your shoulders and simply say, "Fuck it. Time to move on."

So move on from all this useless baggage that is dragging you down. Let all the anger go because all it does is keep you firmly rooted in the ugliness that is your past, and inhibits the future happiness that you and your family should have from now unto the future.

It's time for you to take back control of your happiness. All you need to do is reach out and take it.

I've thought along those lines before. That is, I know I made it difficult for my brother to own up to what he did.

And point taken. I would like to get on with my life.
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11-12-2013, 01:18 PM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 06:22 PM by anonymous66.)
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 11:11 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  Firstly, I'm so sorry that you, as an innocent child, were put in such an inappropriate situation and for all of the pain it's caused you over the years.
Secondly, I don't know if it's been explained to you in the counselling you've gone through but you've probably been dealing with the effects of post traumatic stress disorder. Like adult victims of trauma, children experience significant psychological and emotional distress. Unlike an adult, however, you were traumatized during the most critical period of your life (when you were forming assumptions about yourself, other people, and the world; when your relations to your own internal states were being established; and when your coping and relationship skills were just being established). If untreated by therapy, the effects of sexual abuse experienced in childhood are usually much more dynamic and interactive, in contrast to trauma effects in adults who already have a stable base development and maturation to draw on and for whom, with support, the trauma effects will wane over time.
I can understand your distrust towards psychology, however, I feel like maybe you're misplacing it. What's your reason for making that statement? Could it be that the counselors you've encountered have represented the field in a negative way for you? Psychology itself is simply the scientific study of the human mind and its functions, especially those affecting behavior. Every therapist/client relationship is different and it's very encouraged that you should try on quite a few for size before you'll find one that "fits" you. I'd also highly recommend seeing a registered psychologist or psychotherapist as opposed to just a counselor. Finding someone who has a focus on child abuse and it's affects could be SO healing and life changing for you as it really could help with your distrust, desire for approval, and allow you to develop in the genuine ways you desire.
From what you've expressed, I suspect a huge amount of your distrust comes from the response your family had when you told them. Are any of these people still in your life? I think (as PoolBoy also stated) that people who stand by and allow abuse to happen are not only dishonorable but cruel and vile. Your brother, who obviously made a disgusting statement and does NOT deserve to be in your life, wasn't the one who should have been protecting and defending you when this happened. Your parents were. If you haven't I think it could be extremely cathartic for you to let your parents know how their inaction has affected you as an adult and, quite possibly, to terminate any relationship you have with them (as PB said: they're poison).
I don't think you can simply "just keep being yourself, and learn to deal with the consequences" as you've spent 30+ years of your life trying to do that on your own.
I think confronting your parents could allow you a certain sense of release and also open you up to trusting a little more easily in the future. I really believe the rest needs to come from cognitive therapy.

Thank you for the response. I did tell my parents about it, but never really expressed my disappointment that they didn't know enough to protect me. I was surprised they didn't tell me how sorry they were for allowing me to spend the night with a stranger (he just did a few odd jobs around our home) when I first told them while I was in therapy in my 20's.

I do have some symptoms of PTSD
Quote:Symptoms of PTSD: Avoidance and numbing

Avoiding activities, places, thoughts, or feelings that remind you of the trauma
Inability to remember important aspects of the trauma
Loss of interest in activities and life in general
Feeling detached from others and emotionally numb
Sense of a limited future (you don’t expect to live a normal life span, get married, have a career)

Symptoms of PTSD: Increased anxiety and emotional arousal

Difficulty falling or staying asleep
Irritability or outbursts of anger
Difficulty concentrating
Hypervigilance (on constant “red alert”)
Feeling jumpy and easily startled

but, they aren't as prevalent as they once were. I just didn't like counseling, it felt odd, I wasn't sure what to talk about, and I didn't like putting myself in the hands of someone with their own flawed ego and perceptions. It didn't help that the 1st counselor I had in the late 1980's tried to convince me there were other issues that I just didn't remember. Apparently, she was caught up in the "repressed memory" fad of that time period. She was kind, but wrong and flawed in her therapy methods. I suppose that a very small number of victims actually do forget abuse, but on the whole, the repressed memory movement is bullshit. It was frustrating to know that my counselor was leading me in the wrong direction, and was not helping. So, as you can see, I already know that not all counselors know what the hell they're talking about. I tried again a few years later... and then again a few years after that. I also feel very defensive at times... like I was convinced the counselor was telling me I was doing the therapy wrong.

I also tried to tell a few counselors about my upbringing in a fundamentalist church, and my issues with religion. Unfortunately, every counselor I've had so far was a believer, as far as I can tell, and actually encouraged religious thinking.

What's even worse, is that my own family is a source of some PTSD, even if I hadn't been molested. Even though my dad became a Christian when he was in high school, he was also an alcoholic who sometimes got physically, verbally and emotionally abusive with my mother. I remember at least 2 or 3 occasions when he beat her. There were times they hated each other.

I've thought about finding an atheist or agnostic therapist who deals with PTSD and/or childhood sexual trauma. As I mentioned, I can be combative in therapy.. but I'm sure someone who has dealt with PTSD is used to dealing with that reaction.

I'm not sure if it's healthy, but sometimes I take comfort in the fact that I appear to be doing better than my family. Both my brothers have been in jail, one of my brothers is a flat out drug addict who lost his family because of his addiction (not the one I have issues with), my dad stopped drinking, but still has some anger issues (he got angry at me several times over the years because of the church I was attending) and isn't financially successful by any stretch of the imagination (he's in his 70's and still working), my mom is mentally ill (I think my dad is at least partially to blame, but there is some mental illnesses on her side of the family), at least one of my sisters is also an addict.... but, I also fear becoming like them.
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11-12-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(10-12-2013 11:22 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:37 AM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I was abused as a child by an adult stranger my parents let me spend the night with. I was about 9 years old, and it only happened once.

My family wasn't much help when I let them know I was abused. One of my brothers told me that I was abused and he wasn't, because he was "tougher" than I was, and no one would have dared try it with him. I've since disowned him. I can't think of any situation where a comment like that could be excused.

I'm in my 40's now, and I still have issues with trust. I have virtually no friends except my wife. I can be combative and arrogant when I talk with people and I'm not even sure if I want to change. And friends are overrated, as far as I'm concerned. The only reason I even consider changing is because sometimes people react to me in ways that are painful.

I think part of the reason why I can be challenging is because I also grew up as a fundamentalist, and am weary of people who expect me to believe something because of a simple assertion.

I've tried counseling several times over the years, but I didn't get much out of it, and I have real problems with the entire concept of psychology.

How do I change in ways that allow me to be genuine, but not make people feel they need to "get even" with me? I've also recently identified myself as an atheist, and I'm afraid people are going to assume I'm difficult because I'm an atheist.

Or should I just keep being myself, and learn to deal with the consequences?

I was sexually abused as a child. The scars are permanent. Also, people then didn't know how to deal with it -- I think. I never told because honestly I figured why and no one would believe me anyway. I used to think friends are over-rated because well..I felt let down by them. I was suffering and no one knew...how could I not feel let down by that. You certainly must have felt terribly let down by your sibling's response to your abuse. Often I find people don't know what to do with hearing those kinds of truths.

It pops up in weird ways in adulthood.

You can always talk to us. Hug

I'm sorry that you were abused. It really sucks, doesn't it?
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12-12-2013, 01:51 AM
RE: Child Sexual Abuse
(11-12-2013 01:18 PM)anonymous66 Wrote:  I also tried to tell a few counselors about my upbringing in a fundamentalist church, and my issues with religion. Unfortunately, every counselor I've had so far was a believer, as far as I can tell, and actually encouraged religious thinking.

I'm not sure their reasons for encouraging religious belief, but I can see where they might be coming from: An atheistic view of suffering is somewhat pointless. When you think about it from an atheistic point of view, it really doesn't matter if we suffer or not--there's no reason to anything so there can be no reason to suffering--no overall "grand" reason anyway. There can only be the reason or purpose you assign to it, but since it happened to you, there's no way for you to do that.

I'm not saying that an atheist counselor wouldn't be sympathetic to you, or that they wouldn't be able to give you some tools to use to help cope with it, but they would be hard pressed to go much deeper than that. They really wouldn't be philosophically capable of discussing "why" it happened to you. And that might be what you're looking for.

So, I can see why someone might suggest you seek out a religious opinion, or use religion to help yourself. It sounds like you come from a religious background, and it might be easier to go that route.

Even though you wrote like it, I don't think you really find any satisfaction knowing that your family is doing badly compared to you (your mom being mentally ill, your father working at 70, your brother in jail, etc.). None of that mitigates what happened to you. They may not be capable of helping you, but that doesn't mean you can't be there for them.

Because think about it: Sexual abuse is just another form of assault. Some people get beat up, some get stabbed, some get shot, some almost die in fires, some almost drown in canals, some narrowly escape dying in a plane crash, and some hide in closets during a school shooting (i.e., Sandy Hook Elementary School). That doesn't lessen what happened to you, but it does catagorize it as an assault on you. But you survived. You don't have to let this color your whole life. You were assaulted, but you survived.

Now, what can you do with it? I mean, is it a complete injury and nothing else, or might healing through it give you tools you can use to do something great. You know, life gives you lemons so you make lemonaid, and all that. Isn't there some way healing through this could be a power you have that others don't have? For instance, myself, I was never sexually abused when I was young, so I'm handicapped in helping you in that respect. But you were sexually abused, so if someone came to you, if you found a way through it, you might be of great use to them.

What do you think?
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