Children and God
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19-05-2015, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2015 05:20 PM by Mr Woof.)
Children and God
It seems to me that children in particular have been given a rough deal throughout Judaeo/Christianity.
Back in OT times thousands were killed in wars allegedly called on my old Jehovah, where they faced genocide along with their parents, granparents and all the animals.Check out (Deut 20/11-18)....'you shall annihilate them Hittite. Amorite, Annorite etc etc' . We also read of bad children to be stoned at the city gates, 3000 (including children) being slaughtered to appease Yahweh for worshiping the golden calf. (2/Chron 14) writes of a million Ethiopians being slaughtered.
Moving on to Christianity, with Hell highly in vogue, children do not get all that much mention. Adults are told to be child like in accepting God, and Jesus is claimed to have miraculously saved a few who were dying (Matt 18/2) et al, and there is some reference of his love for them, but little really specific advice per se.
In Christianity's more horrific years (and there were hundreds of those) the baptism of children was viewed with great urgency. Augustine had spoken of a Hell paved with the bones of unbaptised babies. How the rest of them endured that hellfire is another question. Even dead babies were baptised, quite often still born, by midwives. It was until the 19th century that the idea of Purgatory became an official dogma, that has now been dismissed.
At the time of the great plague perhaps close to one third in Europe perished and to add even more misery to that great suffering baptism became frantically in demand. It is really hard to imagine living in such a time.
Today still, particularly in Roman Catholic schools, religious education is part and parcel in the formation of young personalities. An old Jesuit saying goes give us a child for eight years and we have it for life.Were there paedophiles in those old Jewish Christian times? I haven't been able to find any biblical case studies, but who knows? Currently in my city there is a major inquiry over the Catholic Church and paedophile priests. One bishop allowed it to go on for eighteen years transferring the offender from parish to parish. One third of a class of boys were continually molested and many victims ended their lives with suicide.
Pity help the youngsters!
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19-05-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Children and God
We now have a better antidote than pity.

Children (many, not all) have fast access to information: counter-knowledge, help-lines, shared experiences of others who have been through the same shit.

But yes, your points are valid.

Yes

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19-05-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Children and God
The sad fact is that children will accept without question things told to them by adults, and in particular their parents. Churches of all denominations know this and use it to instil a core sense of belief at a very young age.
This makes it very difficult person to question or ultimately reject these beliefs at a later stage in life

The secret to a happy life is lowering your expectations to the point where they are already met
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21-05-2015, 09:58 AM
RE: Children and God
(19-05-2015 05:16 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  It seems to me that children in particular have been given a rough deal throughout Judaeo/Christianity.
Back in OT times thousands were killed in wars allegedly called on my old Jehovah, where they faced genocide along with their parents, granparents and all the animals.Check out (Deut 20/11-18)....'you shall annihilate them Hittite. Amorite, Annorite etc etc' . We also read of bad children to be stoned at the city gates, 3000 (including children) being slaughtered to appease Yahweh for worshiping the golden calf. (2/Chron 14) writes of a million Ethiopians being slaughtered.
Moving on to Christianity, with Hell highly in vogue, children do not get all that much mention. Adults are told to be child like in accepting God, and Jesus is claimed to have miraculously saved a few who were dying (Matt 18/2) et al, and there is some reference of his love for them, but little really specific advice per se.
In Christianity's more horrific years (and there were hundreds of those) the baptism of children was viewed with great urgency. Augustine had spoken of a Hell paved with the bones of unbaptised babies. How the rest of them endured that hellfire is another question. Even dead babies were baptised, quite often still born, by midwives. It was until the 19th century that the idea of Purgatory became an official dogma, that has now been dismissed.
At the time of the great plague perhaps close to one third in Europe perished and to add even more misery to that great suffering baptism became frantically in demand. It is really hard to imagine living in such a time.
Today still, particularly in Roman Catholic schools, religious education is part and parcel in the formation of young personalities. An old Jesuit saying goes give us a child for eight years and we have it for life.Were there paedophiles in those old Jewish Christian times? I haven't been able to find any biblical case studies, but who knows? Currently in my city there is a major inquiry over the Catholic Church and paedophile priests. One bishop allowed it to go on for eighteen years transferring the offender from parish to parish. One third of a class of boys were continually molested and many victims ended their lives with suicide.
Pity help the youngsters!

1. Someone (I can no longer find the reference page online) has counted over 100 verses in the Bible indicating that children, all children, go to Heaven.

2. When Jesus said, "Forbid not the little children to come to me" He was doing and saying something very unusual in His society by giving them credence and treating them like adults.

3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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21-05-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

Yet if they repent their sins and accept Jesus Christ, they to can go to heaven with the children they committed the crimes against.
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21-05-2015, 10:07 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Someone (I can no longer find the reference page online) has counted over 100 verses in the Bible indicating that children, all children, go to Heaven.

2. When Jesus said, "Forbid not the little children to come to me" He was doing and saying something very unusual in His society by giving them credence and treating them like adults.

3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

Which is further evidence that the bible contradicts itself; perhaps more than any other book in existence, and further supports the notion that anyone looking for real knowledge should quickly throw this book out the window.
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21-05-2015, 10:13 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

And this punishment is being relegated to other parish.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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21-05-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Someone (I can no longer find the reference page online) has counted over 100 verses in the Bible indicating that children, all children, go to Heaven.

2. When Jesus said, "Forbid not the little children to come to me" He was doing and saying something very unusual in His society by giving them credence and treating them like adults.

3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

1. So the children end up in this heaven place, after of course being tortured, starved, beaten, raped, stoned, and violently killed by god's creation or the armies of god's instruction. Yeah - ain't that nice.

2. How you get to those conclusions from that one quote from scripture is quite the leap.

3. Again, assumptions galore on what the worst punishment deserves. But then again, all the abusers can end up in heaven with those kiddos, so good deal for them.

What a warped bastard to buy this pile of dung.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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22-05-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 10:06 AM)Dusky Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

Yet if they repent their sins and accept Jesus Christ, they to can go to heaven with the children they committed the crimes against.

I've never heard of any paedophile who has trusted in Christ afterward. I think that might have been what Jesus was referring to.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-05-2015, 10:06 AM
RE: Children and God
(21-05-2015 10:07 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(21-05-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. Someone (I can no longer find the reference page online) has counted over 100 verses in the Bible indicating that children, all children, go to Heaven.

2. When Jesus said, "Forbid not the little children to come to me" He was doing and saying something very unusual in His society by giving them credence and treating them like adults.

3. Most Christians take Jesus's statement "Better to have a rock tied to you and drown that harm a child" as a very strong statement that the worst punishment is reserved for paedophiles and abusers.

Which is further evidence that the bible contradicts itself; perhaps more than any other book in existence, and further supports the notion that anyone looking for real knowledge should quickly throw this book out the window.

How do any or all of these three statements contradict the other two statements? I don't follow your logic here.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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