Children and punishments
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16-01-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 12:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 07:14 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  So, right, wrong or indifferent, my friend did the best she could in the circumstance.
I agree. It's just that there's a couple more things to do, find out why the child tends to run away, what does it run from or where does it run to.

Because he was 2 and a half. Its kinda like mommy pick up. Run away, and mommy chases you. drop something, and mommy picks it up. It doesn't take a psychologist to understand that.

(16-01-2014 12:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  And control that variable.


Not always possible.

(16-01-2014 12:58 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I mean, if we ask why does a chicken cross the road, we should also ask why does a toddler cross the road. And when you find that out, stop spanking, because it's not necessary to save the toddler's life.

you are missing the point. The toddler didn't necessarily cross the road. The toddler bolted whenever out of the arms of his mother. At the grocery story, in the backyard, at the playground, it didn't matter. Keeping a child in your arms 24/7 is not practical, or even possible. The child was not aware that he was running straight for the road, he was just running. Because sometimes running around is what little boys do.

Irrespective of his reasons for bolting, he doesn't change the fact that he bolted. The spank was still necessary for him to get this message loud and clear. Some children like to test boundaries, without regard to their consequences.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-01-2014, 01:43 PM
Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 12:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  O ffs people , get off your high horses.

Calling spanking child abuse is bullshit and you know it.
If you can't look at this without your personal experiences clouding your judgement you shouldn't take part in this discussion.

My personal experience isn't clouded by trying to reconcile why my parents hit me and making excuses for it, with the notion of unconditional love, trust and respect.

I was never hit. I know there is a better way.
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16-01-2014, 01:56 PM
RE: Children and punishments
The last several pages of this thread are nothing but personal attacks. MSBB was correct. If this does not cease I will move this thread to The Colosseum.

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16-01-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: Children and punishments
This whole thing went south pretty quickly. An obvious hot button topic that won't be resolved here, that's for sure.

I hope the OP got what they were looking for when the question was posed.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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16-01-2014, 02:09 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2014 02:13 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 01:09 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  you are missing the point. The toddler didn't necessarily cross the road. The toddler bolted whenever out of the arms of his mother. At the grocery story, in the backyard, at the playground, it didn't matter. Keeping a child in your arms 24/7 is not practical, or even possible. The child was not aware that he was running straight for the road, he was just running. Because sometimes running around is what little boys do.

Irrespective of his reasons for bolting, he doesn't change the fact that he bolted. The spank was still necessary for him to get this message loud and clear. Some children like to test boundaries, without regard to their consequences.
Crossing the road was just a metaphor, like with the chicken.

But please don't tell me "it's what boys do" or "it just happens", that's not an answer. (I didn't do that, for example, what I wanted was a dinosaur book and books don't run away) What you're telling me is, that the toddler was held in mother's hands as often as possible. He can't move much when he's held, right? So he wants to get some freedom while he can, at every opportunity, I suppose. If you open prison doors, what do you think happens next?

If a child likes to test the boundaries, then give him a plenty of boundaries to overcome. Stuff like playground structures to climb... If he likes to run off, then walks in nature with the toddler on a telescopic dog leash (in some harness) would be nice. It would maybe look weird, but all the parents would understand.

I don't say I'm right, I'm just trying some problem-solving. We as thinking human beings are obliged to use problem-solving in every area of our life. We live in a natural, logical world where things happen for a reason and we have to use our reason always, even in parenting. That's the only way not to destroy our children and to be humane. We don't want to end up like KC, who was a probably an innocent child like everyone else until he was turned into a redneck by his redneck parents and he's creating another redneck of his own, who will probably create an endless lineage of rednecks unless he stumbles upon some very unpleasant internet forum discussion about parenting, reasoning and problem-solving.
When we have to cause pain to a child, that's a sign of failure of reasoning and problem-solving on the adult side. Sometimes parents condition the child with pain like a runaway nigger, but it should be obvious it is our failure, not the child's. If mental deficiency is a reason for beating, then retirement homes need some whips and cat o' nine tails.
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16-01-2014, 02:09 PM
RE: Children and punishments
No I didn't I just want to know what disciplinary techniques most people used. Didn't think id start a war
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16-01-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 02:09 PM)BrokenQuill92 Wrote:  No I didn't I just want to know what disciplinary techniques most people used. Didn't think id start a war
It's the schedule, my dear. The schedule of extending personhood to various groups of homo sapiens sapiens. First it was blacks, then women, then gays, atheists and now people argue if children are human beings too, or just toys or pets or punching bags. Children are the next in line to be granted personhood and human rights. It's called the growth of consciousness and it's growing and covering more and more of us, rolling like tsunami, shattering barriers of custom and prejudice.

And I am an empty damaged husk of a human being, who gets to experience some passion and meaning by spreading this message.
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16-01-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 01:43 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 12:43 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  O ffs people , get off your high horses.

Calling spanking child abuse is bullshit and you know it.
If you can't look at this without your personal experiences clouding your judgement you shouldn't take part in this discussion.

My personal experience isn't clouded by trying to reconcile why my parents hit me and making excuses for it, with the notion of unconditional love, trust and respect.

I was never hit. I know there is a better way.

Maybe there is a better way, so? Does that mean that a slap on the butt is a child abuse?
No, it doesn't.
Can you show some research that shows that spanking is traumatic for the child and that it leaves any kind of psychological damage?

Then show me that other forms of punishment and disciplining a child doesn't leave any kind of psychological damage.

In other words, explain why do you think that spanking is more damaging to child's psyche then sending it to its room, or taking away its toys.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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16-01-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 02:09 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 01:09 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  you are missing the point. The toddler didn't necessarily cross the road. The toddler bolted whenever out of the arms of his mother. At the grocery story, in the backyard, at the playground, it didn't matter. Keeping a child in your arms 24/7 is not practical, or even possible. The child was not aware that he was running straight for the road, he was just running. Because sometimes running around is what little boys do.

Irrespective of his reasons for bolting, he doesn't change the fact that he bolted. The spank was still necessary for him to get this message loud and clear. Some children like to test boundaries, without regard to their consequences.
Crossing the road was just a metaphor, like with the chicken.

But please don't tell me "it's what boys do" or "it just happens", that's not an answer. (I didn't do that, for example, what I wanted was a dinosaur book and books don't run away) What you're telling me is, that the toddler was held in mother's hands as often as possible. He can't move much when he's held, right? So he wants to get some freedom while he can, at every opportunity, I suppose. If you open prison doors, what do you think happens next?

If a child likes to test the boundaries, then give him a plenty of boundaries to overcome. Stuff like playground structures to climb... If he likes to run off, then walks in nature with the toddler on a telescopic dog leash (in some harness) would be nice. It would maybe look weird, but all the parents would understand.

I don't say I'm right, I'm just trying some problem-solving. We as thinking human beings are obliged to use problem-solving in every area of our life. We live in a natural, logical world where things happen for a reason and we have to use our reason always, even in parenting. That's the only way not to destroy our children and to be humane. We don't want to end up like KC, who was a probably an innocent child like everyone else until he was turned into a redneck by his redneck parents and he's creating another redneck of his own, who will probably create an endless lineage of rednecks unless he stumbles upon some very unpleasant internet forum discussion about parenting, reasoning and problem-solving.
When we have to cause pain to a child, that's a sign of failure of reasoning and problem-solving on the adult side. Sometimes parents condition the child with pain like a runaway nigger, but it should be obvious it is our failure, not the child's. If mental deficiency is a reason for beating, then retirement homes need some whips and cat o' nine tails.

A runaway nigger? Do me a favor. Put your ignorance back in your pants because I don't appreciate looking at a flasher. It's inappropriate and vile.

And since you don't know KC from a hole in the wall, perhaps you should reserve your judgement for someone you do know.

Your parenting problem solving skills are about as valuable as a box of smashed assholes.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-01-2014, 02:32 PM
Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 02:23 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 01:43 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  My personal experience isn't clouded by trying to reconcile why my parents hit me and making excuses for it, with the notion of unconditional love, trust and respect.

I was never hit. I know there is a better way.

Maybe there is a better way, so? Does that mean that a slap on the butt is a child abuse?
No, it doesn't.
Can you show some research that shows that spanking is traumatic for the child and that it leaves any kind of psychological damage?

Then show me that other forms of punishment and disciplining a child doesn't leave any kind of psychological damage.

In other words, explain why do you think that spanking is more damaging to child's psyche then sending it to its room, or taking away its toys.

I never was sent to my room and I've never sent my son to his room either. It makes no logical sense to me to send a child to their room as a punishment when I expect them to willing go there every night to sleep. That would be setting my child up to fail.
I wouldn't just arbitrarily take a toy away either unless the child was using it in a dangerous way.
There are countless scholarly articles & studies of the "negative effects of corporal punishment". A simple google search with the above search terms would be a start.
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