Children and punishments
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16-01-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 03:31 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 03:20 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  What alternative would you use in this case ?




I don't see a problem with the way she handled it. The child is 3 or 4 years old. He is acting the way 3 & 4 year olds act. There are probably things that could have happened BEFORE the camera started rolling that probably would have helped in the situation. For instance, my mommy instinct tells me that this child is most likely tired-kids that age still need down time. They just left someplace and kids need warning that a change is coming, they need mental help moving from task to task (clean up, 2 or 3 warnings we are leaving in 5 min, 3, 1 minute).

I would have also tried redirection. If you get in the car, when we get home you can do this or that. That isn't bribery if it was something he would do normally anyway….its changing the subject from no, no, no to there are better ways we could spend our time.



The problem I suspect others have is this kid having a meltdown. Kids have meltdowns, is our job as parents to help them get thru it.

Sure, my point tho, is that if she slapped him on his ass would that leave life long damage on his psyche, and if she should in that case be reported to the police and put in prison and the kid taken away from her or at least get social workers involved ?
Because , it seems that that's what some people think is the right course of action if a parent spanks the child .
I happen to think that a spanking would be beneficial for this kid's character.

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16-01-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 03:59 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 03:31 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I don't see a problem with the way she handled it. The child is 3 or 4 years old. He is acting the way 3 & 4 year olds act. There are probably things that could have happened BEFORE the camera started rolling that probably would have helped in the situation. For instance, my mommy instinct tells me that this child is most likely tired-kids that age still need down time. They just left someplace and kids need warning that a change is coming, they need mental help moving from task to task (clean up, 2 or 3 warnings we are leaving in 5 min, 3, 1 minute).

I would have also tried redirection. If you get in the car, when we get home you can do this or that. That isn't bribery if it was something he would do normally anyway….its changing the subject from no, no, no to there are better ways we could spend our time.



The problem I suspect others have is this kid having a meltdown. Kids have meltdowns, is our job as parents to help them get thru it.

Sure, my point tho, is that if she slapped him on his ass would that leave life long damage on his psyche, and if she should in that case be reported to the police and put in prison and the kid taken away from her or at least get social workers involved ?
Because , it seems that that's what some people think is the right course of action if a parent spanks the child .
I happen to think that a spanking would be beneficial for this kid's character.

I don't think a smack would help. It would just make the child scream more.
think of it this way- you have been working a double shift, you are physically and mentally exhausted, you put the last bite of food in your mouth and someone jerks you out of your seat and says 'move' time to go, I said go- time to go. Wouldn't that get you in a pissy mood? then they smack you because you didn't jump when they said jump to improve your character.

yes, I exaggerated to make a point. But the point is we all want to feel respected and as parents we need to walk kids thru healthy relationships, not just bully them into following orders.

Thank you for posting an example. I don't want it to sound like I am singling anyone out because they parent different from me. I AM NOT. I do think parents can teach each other methods, techniques and such to improve our lives, and having a scenario that is neutral to all of us is a key in discussing it.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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16-01-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 02:09 PM)Luminon Wrote:  We don't want to end up like KC, who was a probably an innocent child like everyone else until he was turned into a redneck by his redneck parents and he's creating another redneck of his own, who will probably create an endless lineage of rednecks unless he stumbles upon some very unpleasant internet forum discussion about parenting, reasoning and problem-solving.
When we have to cause pain to a child, that's a sign of failure of reasoning and problem-solving on the adult side. Sometimes parents condition the child with pain like a runaway nigger, but it should be obvious it is our failure, not the child's. If mental deficiency is a reason for beating, then retirement homes need some whips and cat o' nine tails.

Ok seriously? You need to go play somewhere else. You can't possibly think anyone would want to talk to you after this crap. You don't know KC and you don't have any right to judge him. I would say your attitude and use of language would be more harmful to a child than the occasional spanking. I really hope you don't have any kids.

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16-01-2014, 04:17 PM
Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 03:20 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 02:32 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  I never was sent to my room and I've never sent my son to his room either. It makes no logical sense to me to send a child to their room as a punishment when I expect them to willing go there every night to sleep. That would be setting my child up to fail.
I wouldn't just arbitrarily take a toy away either unless the child was using it in a dangerous way.
There are countless scholarly articles & studies of the "negative effects of corporal punishment". A simple google search with the above search terms would be a start.
Could you not make that much posts in a row? You can use "edit" button.

As for the links you posted, slap on the butt is not a corporal punishment.

What alternative would you use in this case ?




I always explained in graphic detail what we were doing what the plan was and why and how I expected him to behave beforehand.
Take shopping for instance...I'd tell him where we were going and what we were getting. My son loved the local pet store so I would try to incorporate stopping there or something he enjoyed.
If there wasn't time to make the trip I'd tell him, so he wasn't surprised. As the time to go approached to leave I'd let him know it was almost time to go and immediately start telling him all about what we were doing next and how he could help or be apart of it.
Once I recall a total meltdown as we were waiting in a long line, outside, on a gravel surface, for ice cream. He was almost three. There were some children there running around throwing rocks. I told him not to. I explained getting hit by one hurts and it's not a nice thing to do. I told him if he choses to throw a rock, he wouldn't get ice cream and we would have to leave. He picked up and threw a rock. I simply picked him up and carried him to the car. He was crying and yelling... "I made the wrong choice! I made the wrong choice!" He was sobbing. I calmly said, "I know, I'm sorry you made the wrong choice ...but next time, I know you'll make the right one" he sobbed and sobbed...damn near killed me to follow through. I didn't get angry, I didn't yell, I didn't demean and I didn't hit him.

Sorry about the multi posts. I'm new and using tapatalk and for some reason it wouldn't allow me to c&p multiple links.
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16-01-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 04:17 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 03:20 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Could you not make that much posts in a row? You can use "edit" button.

As for the links you posted, slap on the butt is not a corporal punishment.

What alternative would you use in this case ?




I always explained in graphic detail what we were doing what the plan was and why and how I expected him to behave beforehand.
Take shopping for instance...I'd tell him where we were going and what we were getting. My son loved the local pet store so I would try to incorporate stopping there or something he enjoyed.
If there wasn't time to make the trip I'd tell him, so he wasn't surprised. As the time to go approached to leave I'd let him know it was almost time to go and immediately start telling him all about what we were doing next and how he could help or be apart of it.
Once I recall a total meltdown as we were waiting in a long line, outside, on a gravel surface, for ice cream. He was almost three. There were some children there running around throwing rocks. I told him not to. I explained getting hit by one hurts and it's not a nice thing to do. I told him if he choses to throw a rock, he wouldn't get ice cream and we would have to leave. He picked up and threw a rock. I simply picked him up and carried him to the car. He was crying and yelling... "I made the wrong choice! I made the wrong choice!" He was sobbing. I calmly said, "I know, I'm sorry you made the wrong choice ...but next time, I know you'll make the right one" he sobbed and sobbed...damn near killed me to follow through. I didn't get angry, I didn't yell, I didn't demean and I didn't hit him.

Sorry about the multi posts. I'm new and using tapatalk and for some reason it wouldn't allow me to c&p multiple links.
this is how we operate too.

And it doesn't always work - I lose my shit and get frustrated plenty of times too, but this is what we are striving for every day. It takes work to include the little people who walk around like they are drunk most of the day. It takes buckets of patience- some days I have more than others. But our goal isn't compliance with my orders, its to learn.

I'll be quiet now unless someone has a specific question.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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16-01-2014, 04:25 PM
Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 03:59 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 03:31 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I don't see a problem with the way she handled it. The child is 3 or 4 years old. He is acting the way 3 & 4 year olds act. There are probably things that could have happened BEFORE the camera started rolling that probably would have helped in the situation. For instance, my mommy instinct tells me that this child is most likely tired-kids that age still need down time. They just left someplace and kids need warning that a change is coming, they need mental help moving from task to task (clean up, 2 or 3 warnings we are leaving in 5 min, 3, 1 minute).

I would have also tried redirection. If you get in the car, when we get home you can do this or that. That isn't bribery if it was something he would do normally anyway….its changing the subject from no, no, no to there are better ways we could spend our time.



The problem I suspect others have is this kid having a meltdown. Kids have meltdowns, is our job as parents to help them get thru it.

Sure, my point tho, is that if she slapped him on his ass would that leave life long damage on his psyche, and if she should in that case be reported to the police and put in prison and the kid taken away from her or at least get social workers involved ?
Because , it seems that that's what some people think is the right course of action if a parent spanks the child .
I happen to think that a spanking would be beneficial for this kid's character.

How would a spanking be beneficial? He is already dealing with huge emotions he can't quite handle yet as he isn't mature enough. Obviously, in that moment he was already upset. How is smacking him helping the situation?

I don't know why they left or were unable to go back in. Did he misbehave? Is that why they were leaving? Was it simply time to go because there were other things to do? In my experience, if you explain the reasoning behind your decisions children usually really do understand and comply willingly.
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16-01-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 02:59 PM)Luminon Wrote:  You're right, I'm ignorant of your situation. And if I am completely off the mark, there is no reason to get upset. Maybe it's just me, I have a huge reason to get upset, because I was not treated as a person when I was a child. People who treat their children as persons don't need to get angry at me, they can only pity me and maybe agree with me.

Then perhaps is it even slightly possible that your experience as a child is clouding your ability to see there moderation can exist?

I don't have kids, so I'm not upset about anything. I just don't care much for over simplification of situations that make things very black/white.

Nor am I a big fan of anyone who is overly dramatic on the issue of spanking to call it abuse. To do so minimizes actual abuse that involves starvation, beating, burning, kicking, punching, sexual abuse, and so on. That is abuse. A swat on the butt for consistently testing boundaries as a last resort is not abuse.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-01-2014, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2014 04:45 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 04:09 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Ok seriously? You need to go play somewhere else. You can't possibly think anyone would want to talk to you after this crap. You don't know KC and you don't have any right to judge him. I would say your attitude and use of language would be more harmful to a child than the occasional spanking. I really hope you don't have any kids.
Does a bad language disturb you? Fuck the language. My parents screamed at me and beat me without using a single dirty word ever and see what good it did to me.
No slaver thought of his slaves as Afro-Americans and no parent thinks of his children as persons. Dehumanization is what disturbs me, these are my priorities. Pleasant language is a bit lower on my list.
My attitude is anger and indignation, which is a healthy response in contact with evil and corruption. If I want to be trusted to deal with other people (including children) with empathy, I must have this healthy response, this empathy with suffering of others and also my own suffering in childhood.
No, I don't play, this is not play, this is a serious topic and here's you trying to treat me as a child, less than a person, thus you confirm my words. Of course, nobody would talk about this voluntarily, because it hurts, because there is a lot of old wounds. But only if we deal with these wounds, only that makes sure we will not inflict them on our beloved children. We do not call wounds their true names, we call them "discipline" and "discipline is a "good thing", so it must be inflicted on others, should we still think of ourselves as good.

KC is a normal self-proclaimed redneck parent, raised by rednecks and raising rednecks who will probably raise more rednecks, unless they read discussions like this. People do as they are done to and then they order others to do. (Joe Abercrombie) If he finds it offensive, then he would want to change himself, that's his thing.
My thing is going around and calling things their true names. True names have power, because right now we call shit gold and we all love gold. Unless we call things their true names, we don't know what we have, what we're doing and we have no choice if we want to keep them or not. My job is to give names and thus choices.
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16-01-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 03:20 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 02:32 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  I never was sent to my room and I've never sent my son to his room either. It makes no logical sense to me to send a child to their room as a punishment when I expect them to willing go there every night to sleep. That would be setting my child up to fail.
I wouldn't just arbitrarily take a toy away either unless the child was using it in a dangerous way.
There are countless scholarly articles & studies of the "negative effects of corporal punishment". A simple google search with the above search terms would be a start.
Could you not make that much posts in a row? You can use "edit" button.

As for the links you posted, slap on the butt is not a corporal punishment.

What alternative would you use in this case ?




I can only add my personal opinion because I don't know these people.

The kid is way too old for a pacifier jeesh
Ok first of all it is really important to pay attention to your kids' sleepy cues at this age. The whole situation could have been avoided, but sometimes you just can't leave just because they're sleepy so maybe that was the case. I would say first of all someone videoing and laughing does not help. Her looking at that person and laughing does not help. I personally just think there was way too much talking for this situation. I would have have picked him up from the get go and told him, I know you're not tired but mommy is really tired (sometimes that in itself works but lets say it didn't). Then I would have walked straight to the car no stopping no talking no acknowledging the tantrum. Maybe camera guy could have been holding the blanket so I would have both hands free. I would have gently forced him into the car seat, given him his blanket and left. I'm sure that kid was knocked out within a minute of her pulling away.
Well, now you know what I would have done. I still don't think there's anything wrong with what she did, it just took longer is all.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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16-01-2014, 04:37 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 04:06 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 03:59 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Sure, my point tho, is that if she slapped him on his ass would that leave life long damage on his psyche, and if she should in that case be reported to the police and put in prison and the kid taken away from her or at least get social workers involved ?
Because , it seems that that's what some people think is the right course of action if a parent spanks the child .
I happen to think that a spanking would be beneficial for this kid's character.

I don't think a smack would help. It would just make the child scream more.
think of it this way- you have been working a double shift, you are physically and mentally exhausted, you put the last bite of food in your mouth and someone jerks you out of your seat and says 'move' time to go, I said go- time to go. Wouldn't that get you in a pissy mood? then they smack you because you didn't jump when they said jump to improve your character.

yes, I exaggerated to make a point. But the point is we all want to feel respected and as parents we need to walk kids thru healthy relationships, not just bully them into following orders.

Thank you for posting an example. I don't want it to sound like I am singling anyone out because they parent different from me. I AM NOT. I do think parents can teach each other methods, techniques and such to improve our lives, and having a scenario that is neutral to all of us is a key in discussing it.

Let me just say this, I won't go into details but If I didn't learn to swallow my pissy mood and to follow orders when they came from proper authority I wouldn't be alive today.

Anyway , I am not a parent, and I am not saying that spanking is a great way to raise your kids. I will avoid it as best as I can when I have my kids. I was just reacting to the ,imo, gross overreacting by some people.

I'll leave you guys to it.

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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