Children and punishments
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16-01-2014, 05:07 PM
RE: Children and punishments
Its still the same issue I brought up earlier.
Parents who spank are conditioned to believe its the best course of action, regardless of all the studies to the contrary.
I don't agree with the insults flying around but its just people getting frustrated that the "hitting" supporters only spout " it worked on me , therefore it works" , and if it didn't work on you and you now have a ruined relation ship with your parents then that's irrellivent and should not be part of your argument against hitting..
I understand you are conditioned in a stockholm way that "my parents loved me, and must have only hit me because I deserved it", followed by "it made me a better person, who I am today" (insert good traits).
This sound familiar.
to the atheists here, if you were able to shake the dogma of religion and rewire conditioning with reasoning, then you have the ability to turn off the reactive self defence of hitting kids and look at the evidence against it, I implore you to so.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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16-01-2014, 05:10 PM
Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 05:04 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 04:59 PM)hotnostril Wrote:  Yes, really. It's why I can't watch shows like Americas Funniest Videos. I see nothing funny about people almost getting killed or seriously hurt. It makes me sick when I hear parents laughing as their own children have a brush with serious injuries. I think there is something seriously wrong with those people.

That video is adorable. I don't like a lot of the AFV videos for the same reason but no one is really hurt in that video. Sometimes you can't help but laugh when your kids are silly and it's even funnier when they get mad at you for laughing.

That kid is adorable! On that we can agree. He's just so worried the baby is bleeding...and dad knowing its juice or whatever doesn't explain to him it's juice or whatever before laughing WITH him...I don't know why it upsets me so much...but it does.
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16-01-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 05:07 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Its still the same issue I brought up earlier.
Parents who spank are conditioned to believe its the best course of action, regardless of all the studies to the contrary.
I don't agree with the insults flying around but its just people getting frustrated that the "hitting" supporters only spout " it worked on me , therefore it works" , and if it didn't work on you and you now have a ruined relation ship with your parents then that's irrellivent and should not be part of your argument against hitting..
I understand you are conditioned in a stockholm way that "my parents loved me, and must have only hit me because I deserved it", followed by "it made me a better person, who I am today" (insert good traits).
This sound familiar.
to the atheists here, if you were able to shake the dogma of religion and rewire conditioning with reasoning, then you have the ability to turn off the reactive self defence of hitting kids and look at the evidence against it, I implore you to so.

I was going to make a lengthy post, but it seems you have covered my sentiments nicely.

Simply put, there are far more effective ways of getting kids to behave than to resort to corporate punishment.
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16-01-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: Children and punishments
I would say that it depends on the child!
The thing is to find what works with a child and sticking with it.
The child should always know why they are being punished in any form of punishment that they receive be that spanking, scolding, time out, etc...!

I only recall receiving a spanking a few times as a child and after that I knew were the line was and the mere threat of a spanking was enough to straighten me out. My brother on the other hand laughed at my mother after receiving a spanking at the age of six. I would like to note that while my mother didn't beat us you did know that you were receiving a spanking and why you were receiving it. (In other words you felt it!) I was nine at the time and thought that my brother had just signed his death warrant. My mother instead of killing my brother much to my amazement sent him to his room. After that instance she changed her tactic in disciplining him and from then on she would lay a guilt trip on him that would make any Jewish mother proud. (My brother would be in tears by the end of one of her guilt trips.) Grounding was always a given regardless of whether we received a spanking, scolding, stuck in the corner, etc...!

Onward, my faithful steed!
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16-01-2014, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 16-01-2014 06:23 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 04:49 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes your use of language bothers me. It sucks that your parents abused you. My parents were calm abusers. They never yelled at me or cursed at me. They simply told me I was being punished for my behavior. My mother was pretty good with her wooden spoon but it was daddy's belt that we were all afraid of. That being said, I never felt abused as a child. My mother was very loving she spent a lot of time with us she taught great things. Even after becoming atheist and rejecting my mother's ways I still value some of the lessons she taught me.
It is completely ignorant to say, no parent thinks of his children as persons. It's not true. Who are you to claim knowledge of the thoughts of millions of parents who you do not know? Being a parent certainly isn't easy and no one has the answers. As our children are little drunks wondering around doing stupid things, we are all just bumbling fools following after them trying to make the right choices and hoping that our mistakes won't be ones that ruin our kids. I don't spank my kids. I don't plan to ever spank them, but I don't think the occasional spanking is that big of a deal. It is not abuse.
Your attitude is anger and indignation which explains why you think you have a right to attack strangers and judge them. Meh I hope for your sake you are 15 so that you have plenty of time to grow up. There's no point in blaming the world for your past. Blame the ones who hurt you for hurting you and then try to move on. Being angry is a sad way to waste your life.
I think there are very few real adults out there. I think they are mostly children covered in emotional wounds who grew up big and got labeled adults and got children of their own. Each emotional wound is a button that is pushed every once in a while and creates an angry emotional outburst.
No-one has all the answers? I don't believe that. I listen to a guy who has one answer, and that is applying philosophy (objective logic) to relationships. There is only one way to have integrity and fairness in relationships, but countless ways to harm those we love, to invent nonsense rules and manipulations so that they don't push our buttons, so that they must tiptoe around us, or we freak out.

I am glad you do not spank your kids, but I'd love if you thought about it even deeper than you already do!
Occasional spanking is not a big deal if you are OK with the idea that your children will think it is not a big deal to occasionally spank your grandchildren and that men will occasionally hit women and that women will occasionally destroy a man's self-esteem and dignity. This is what you'd be OK with, if you really gave it a thought. There is no difference between one and the other. If there is, then you're inventing special ad-hoc rules on who is or isn't a person. Why are you the one who gets to invent these rules? Or why did my mom have the privilege to make rules than a clean house is worth more than her family and relationships?
The answer is, nobody gets to make the rules. We must use objective logic of fairness to arrive at objectively fair (reciprocal) rules and never allow anyone to make up rules as they please.

Yes, I am hurting you, yet I am not attacking you. And I am hurting myself, yet I am not attacking myself. I am straightening myself up. I was attacking myself every time my mom yelled at me and I couldn't yell back, or every time I felt resentment towards my mom or towards my older brother, who took yelling after her. And I attacked him verbally because I believed it's not her fault.
Now I am, in a strange way happier and freer. Or will be soon. You surely understand me. I am a believer in family religion who self-attacked and suppressed doubts about family God's existence, and now I lost that faith and dogma. I am a born-again unbeliever in one more nonsense. It hurts, but it's good, it's growth. Before there could be no growth. So don't feel threatened, rejoice with me. Don't worry, I lost faith in lies more than once, I am not new to this.
It's possible it made me temporarily a little insensitive, harsh on myself and possibly others, but ...


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16-01-2014, 06:28 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 06:17 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(16-01-2014 04:49 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Yes your use of language bothers me. It sucks that your parents abused you. My parents were calm abusers. They never yelled at me or cursed at me. They simply told me I was being punished for my behavior. My mother was pretty good with her wooden spoon but it was daddy's belt that we were all afraid of. That being said, I never felt abused as a child. My mother was very loving she spent a lot of time with us she taught great things. Even after becoming atheist and rejecting my mother's ways I still value some of the lessons she taught me.
It is completely ignorant to say, no parent thinks of his children as persons. It's not true. Who are you to claim knowledge of the thoughts of millions of parents who you do not know? Being a parent certainly isn't easy and no one has the answers. As our children are little drunks wondering around doing stupid things, we are all just bumbling fools following after them trying to make the right choices and hoping that our mistakes won't be ones that ruin our kids. I don't spank my kids. I don't plan to ever spank them, but I don't think the occasional spanking is that big of a deal. It is not abuse.
Your attitude is anger and indignation which explains why you think you have a right to attack strangers and judge them. Meh I hope for your sake you are 15 so that you have plenty of time to grow up. There's no point in blaming the world for your past. Blame the ones who hurt you for hurting you and then try to move on. Being angry is a sad way to waste your life.
I think there are very few real adults out there. I think they are mostly children covered in emotional wounds who grew up big and got labeled adults and got children of their own. Each emotional wound is a button that is pushed every once in a while and creates an angry emotional outburst.
No-one has all the answers? I don't believe that. I listen to a guy who has one answer, and that is applying philosophy (objective logic) to relationships. There is only one way to have integrity and fairness in relationships, but countless ways to harm those we love, to invent nonsense rules and manipulations so that they don't push our buttons, so that they must tiptoe around us, or we freak out.

I am glad you do not spank your kids, but I'd love if you thought about it even deeper than you already do!
Occasional spanking is not a big deal if you are OK with the idea that your children will think it is not a big deal to occasionally spank your grandchildren and that men will occasionally hit women and that women will occasionally destroy a man's self-esteem and dignity. This is what you'd be OK with, if you really gave it a thought. There is no difference between one and the other. If there is, then you're inventing special ad-hoc rules on who is or isn't a person. Why are you the one who gets to invent these rules? Or why did my mom have the privilege to make rules than a clean house is worth more than her family and relationships?
The answer is, nobody gets to make the rules. We must use objective logic of fairness to arrive at objectively fair (reciprocal) rules and never allow anyone to make up rules as they please.

Yes, I am hurting you, yet I am not attacking you. And I am hurting myself, yet I am not attacking myself. I am straightening myself up. I was attacking myself every time my mom yelled at me and I couldn't yell back, or every time I felt resentment towards my mom or towards my older brother, who took yelling after her. And I attacked him verbally because I believed it's not her fault.
Now I am, in a strange way happier and freer. Or will be soon. You surely understand me. I am a believer in family religion who self-attacked and suppressed doubts about family God's existence, and now I lost that faith and dogma. I am a born-again unbeliever in one more nonsense. It hurts, but it's good, it's growth. Before there could be no growth. So don't feel threatened, rejoice with me. Don't worry, I lost faith in lies more than once, I am not new to this.
It's possible it made me temporarily a little insensitive, but ...



Your analogies are ridiculous. Why do I get I make the rules? Because they are children and I am their mother. That's the way life works whether you like it or not. If my children chose to spank their children one day, it will make me sad but it will not make them bad parents.

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16-01-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(16-01-2014 06:28 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Why do I get I make the rules? Because they are children and I am their mother.

Psychopathic deities state precisely that.
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16-01-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: Children and punishments
Thread closed so people can calm down.

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16-01-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: Children and punishments
This thread has turned into a venomous argument. Too many people are making personal attacks and this issue has proved to be very divisive and emotional. Hence, I have moved it to The Vipers Pit. Continue at you own risk.

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17-01-2014, 07:49 AM
RE: Children and punishments
IT IS IN THE FORUM'S BEST INTEREST TO NOT ONLY CLOSE THIS THREAD BUT KEEP IT CLOSED. IT WILL NOT BE REOPENED.

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