Children and punishments
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15-01-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 05:45 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 05:39 PM)Pippen Wrote:  As Johnny Depp once said having kids is like living with miniature drunks. They do immensely stupid things which really have you going WTF? Little kids can't rationalise their behaviour and a lot of the time punishing them makes no sense so they don't actually learn anything.

God damn, don't give em to southern parents then. If anything, I can say getting my hand popped or getting a spanking from time to time taught me a lot.

Taught me not to be a little douche bag. Shy

I only remember one sound thrashing and all it taught me was to run faster.
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15-01-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: Children and punishments
Patience is the key, a child will learn your limits really quick, and if they know you will give in and smack instead of them having to sit through explanations and lectures, they will not treat it seriously.
Smacking is a copout if you can't be bothered with empathy training.

Teach your kids to feel bad about upsetting people and then you only have sibling rivalry to deal with, (somehow kids are genetically programmed to fight each other).

Show me a missbehaving child that lives in a toyless room, has friends turned away at the door, does not use the computer or TV . And then still refuses to behave.
You would likely have an autism or mental health problem to treat not a justification for smacking.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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15-01-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: Children and punishments
We had this conversation before on this forum. I voiced my preference for spanking over ineffectual things like speaking softly to them - even when they are about to touch a hot stove or stick a fork in an outlet. I was berated for 12 pages and couldn't seem to make people understand that I wasn't punching my (nonexistent) children repeatedly in the face, I was spanking them on the butt until they were old enough to understand my reason and consequences speeches. It seems the same conversation is about to happen again so I will stay out.

All I know is, at Applebee's yesterday, a child walked right over to the host stand, grabbed anything he could and threw it on the ground. His mom followed behind him picking up after him, teaching him nothing and bolstering his belief that he can do what he wants and it will be tolerated.






"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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15-01-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: Children and punishments
My dad rarely said anything to me twice. When he did, he said it the second time with a 2x4.

I've hit my daughter twice. Once when she was very young, because made a second attempt at playing with the stove. She got a slap on the hand, and until she was old enough to use one, she never touched the stove again. Second time was when she fainted. I couldn't wake her and panicked. Slapped her in the face, she opened her eyes, and punched me right in the nose. Just the same way I taught her to if any man ever laid a hand on her.

But to call spanking, when done in careful moderation, abuse is absurd. Depp is right. They ARE little drunks walking around doing stupid shit. And sometimes, they are so stubborn, that fear is the only way to get them to do something. A parent that attempts to wield fear must be VERY careful to ONLY use it as a last resort, and only in circumstance where the kid needs to be PROTECTED. (KCs snake scenario is a perfect example). But sometimes fear is what saves them from a far worse fate. Like it or not, not all kids respond to solely positive reinforcement.

So unless you know the parent, it isn't as black and white as hit or no hit. In this case, I know the parent. I am confident that KC would never hit is boy unless he thought it was absolutely necessary. It's called good judgment. Jeremy has it.

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15-01-2014, 06:15 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 06:22 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Children and punishments
My parents never had to spank me. However, that wasn't because I didn't want to do bad things....

It because at the orphanage, I learned the hard way what happens to people that don't follow the rules, no food, no playtime, and sometimes, a bloody nose.

While I am definitely again the use of smacking as a parenting tool, I do not think the majority of the parents that do it are evil, or deserve to have the cops on them. They are just trying to dicipline their kids, and are doing what "works" for them. Are there non-violent methods of dicipline? Yeah. Do they work? Not on everybody.

When a parent smacks on the bum, they are exercising operant conditioning, and while that is a valid way to train kids (not the smacking part, the operant conditioning), the "punishment" could be something other than violence.

In summary, while I do not condone smacking/spanking, etc, I do not condemn the majority of parents who use these methods as the punishment is not what i would consider harmful enough.

Whipping and using belts however.....

Not a fan.

I am also a believer that operant conditioning teaches kids not to do something, not why they shouldn't do it. Which makes it for a shit poor parenting tool after an age where children can understand your words. I much more prefer other (non-violent) parenting methods that explain why rather than simply instilling fear of punishment if he/she doesn't obey.
But I know I ain't familiar with parenting (I am not a parent), so my views can be (most-likely will be) considered wrong or naive.

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15-01-2014, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 06:28 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Children and punishments
Yeah the conv turns partisan pretty quick.
Excuse my self righteousness (its really on a foundation of hypocrisy) Wink

But I do find smackers like my sister rarely explain the reason for why something is wrong and just go "don't do that, don't, im warning you" , smack.

I was at a deli with my sister a few years back, our kids started making hand prints and kissing the glass display case. I said ,don't do that , the lady behind the counter has to come clean that now,
My daughter glanced at the employee, looked shamed and sat down asked if she should clean it off.

My sister said to my niece, stop that, I'm warning you. Then smacked and dragged her to the seat. Issue resolved with zero empathy involved.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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15-01-2014, 06:30 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 05:54 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 05:46 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  GAC - Look. I get completely that you have a horrendous, awful experience with your parents. Not to mention the other kids in your neighborhood growing up. I am so sorry for that. I wish there was something anyone could do to help you.

That said, it is unfair to KC (or people who use this method in moderation) to vicariously retaliate against your abusers due to your lack of power then by overcompensating for it now in an ersatz justice.

KC does not abuse his children and to insinuate that he does just because he has chosen to spank as the only working method of discipline is....overly dramatic and hysterical reaction based on your past experience.

KC did not abuse you. Do not try to stand up to him the way you couldn't to your abusers. No You will never seek healing this way.

Nice explaination. Thing is: It`s useless and no amount of explaining will change my opinion or let alone change the situation, which is that corporal punishment against minors is stricktly illegal in every European country but the UK, France, Italy, Switzerland, Serbia, Bosnia, Belgium, Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Unfortunatly Corporal punishment in the US is leagal and decided on by the states which (oh what a not suprise) show the below the mason dixon line even beating kids at school is legal. But I am not suprised about that considering how those savages there were still believing in racial segregation whilest the rest of the world was interducing contraception and legalising abortion.

Someone who beats a child, does not have to justify that infront of me or a forum - but a judge.

Anyway. I abide to German law. And by reporting suspected child abusers to the authorities I am simply doing my duty as a citizen.

Bro, you are grossly overreacting. My father was not light handed either, I understand how you feel, I am very sensitive to child abuse myself, but you have to understand that spanking a kid is not abuse.

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15-01-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 05:54 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Nice explaination. Thing is: It`s useless and no amount of explaining will change my opinion or let alone change the situation, which is that corporal punishment against minors is stricktly illegal in every European country but the UK, France, Italy, Switzerland, Serbia, Bosnia, Belgium, Czech Republic and Slovakia.

so basically its illegal all over Europe except for a whole bunch of countries where it isn't? Consider


(15-01-2014 05:54 PM)The Germans are coming Wrote:  Someone who beats a child, does not have to justify that infront of me or a forum - but a judge.

Anyway. I abide to German law. And by reporting suspected child abusers to the authorities I am simply doing my duty as a citizen.

Again, to insinuate that an open handed slap on a diapered bottom is "beating" is a stretch and in your case, a hysterical response to something based on your emotional experience.

I was spanked, and by no means did I feel "beaten" as a child.

Whether you agree with this form of discipline of not, it is not "beating." Further, when you call spanking a beating, you trivialize actual beatings.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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15-01-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 04:44 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(15-01-2014 04:41 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  I don't really care for any of these, though I have used the time out on occasion. Maybe I just lucked out, or maybe I am just really patient? I explain to my kids why they shouldn't do certain things. I started explaining to them when they were too young to really understand, but I believe that the earlier you talk to your children like they're adults the earlier they will understand what you're saying. I am constantly complimented on how well behaved my children are. Generally just saying I'm disappointed will snap them out of whatever "bad" things they're doing. I don't like the idea of punishment though. I think it's so much smarter to teach your kids about natural consequences. Well anyways, I'm no parenting guru, I think I just lucked out with super easy kids. I hope it stays that way.

Yep. You lucked out.

I think this one is going to prove to be more difficult than her brother and sister haha




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15-01-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 06:15 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  My parents never had to spank me. However, that wasn't because I didn't want to do bad things....

It because at the orphanage, I learned the hard way what happens to people that don't follow the rules, no food, no playtime, and sometimes, a bloody nose.

While I am definitely again the use of smacking as a parenting tool, I do not think the majority of the parents that do it are evil, or deserve to have the cops on them. They are just trying to dicipline their kids, and are doing what "works" for them. Are there non-violent methods of dicipline? Yeah. Do they work? Not on everybody.

When a parent smacks on the bum, they are exercising operant conditioning, and while that is a valid way to train kids (not the smacking part, the operant conditioning), the "punishment" could be something other than violence.

In summary, while I do not condone smacking/spanking, etc, I do not condemn the majority of parents who use these methods as the punishment is not what i would consider harmful enough.

Whipping and using belts however.....

Not a fan.

I am also a believer that operant conditioning teaches kids not to do something, not why they shouldn't do it. Which makes it for a shit poor parenting tool after an age where children can understand your words. I much more prefer other (non-violent) parenting methods that explain why rather than simply instilling fear of punishment if he/she doesn't obey.
But I know I ain't familiar with parenting (I am not a parent), so my views can be (most-likely will be) considered wrong or naive.

It depends. Here in New Zealand we have a law that says you are not allowed to smack your kids and they have prosecuted a fair few people under it for situations you are referring to. A smacked backside when your kid does something dumb could well see you in front of a judge. NZ has probably about the worst child abuse statistics in the world and the law was brought in to try and give the cops some teeth when dealing with it. A lot of it starts out as what the parents see as 'discipline' and rapidly escalates into some bloody awful stuff. The only people who still want to smack their kids about are the conservative, churchy ones.

I don't know anyone that would even think of hitting a child, but then I don't know a whole lot of seething sacks of shit. My friends tend to be bloody nice sensible people with well brought up whelps.
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