Children and punishments
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15-01-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 06:16 PM)sporehux Wrote:  I was at a deli with my sister a few years back, our kids started making hand prints and kissing the glass display case. I said ,don't do that , the lady behind the counter has to come clean that now,
My daughter glanced at the employee, looked shamed and sat down asked if she should clean it off.

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I can see a smack to the hand of a young child about to touch the stove….its a different lesson, and one that has to be taught in a moment. After the danger has passed then I would explain the 'why' behind it.


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15-01-2014, 06:49 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 06:56 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Children and punishments
I don't see a light spanking as abuse, I see it as ineffectual. And normalises the behaviour to the child.
And in some parents the obvious ineffectivness leads to more abusive punishments. Damaging the parent along with the child.

Most Spanker s are like theists, they don't analyze their position, they just try and justify it. While dismissing all the contrary evidence out of hand.

Ask a spanker to explain why other parents never smack and their children not monsters ? And punishments are rarely for a repeat offenses.

Spankers seem to have repeat buisness. To deal with.
And seem to be punishing the same missdeeds.

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15-01-2014, 06:57 PM
RE: Children and punishments
My parents were abusive -- and they spanked. But the spanking part was not what was abusive. I suppose getting spanked with a hanger or whipped with a belt may count as abusive, but even that didn't overly traumatize me. Those were punishments for things that I did wrong, I deserved it. And honestly I think many kids deserve a good disciplinary spanking.

What is abusive, is when a parent impulsively harms their child out of anger. Your first impulse when you get angry SHOULD NOT be to physically assault anybody, including your own children. Spanking should be done out of necessity, not out of anger.

I can tell you, my mom was the good parent (my siblings call her the "enabler") and she was usually the one who spanked me. But one of the worst things she ever did to me was slap me across the face when she got angry over something (can't even remember what). It was the only time she ever did physical harm to me that wasn't a planned discipline. I was like 13, and I could not believe that she would lay her hands on me out of anger. I went to my room and cried. It didn't even hurt, but I totally felt like my trust in her was broken. I'm not going to get into what my dad has done, but lets just say there was never any trust, just fear.

In the future I will probably refrain from spanking, if other methods like time out or taking things away work. But if they don't, well then the kid needs to learn somehow. I suspect it will be very sad, but ya know, it's better than them growing up to be spoiled brats that can't follow rules.

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15-01-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 06:32 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  so basically its illegal all over Europe except for a whole bunch of countries where it isn't? Consider

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Quote:Again, to insinuate that an open handed slap on a diapered bottom is "beating" is a stretch and in your case, a hysterical response to something based on your emotional experience.

I have every right to be emotional about this subject. And my response is in accordance to the laws under which I live.

Quote:I was spanked, and by no means did I feel "beaten" as a child.

Whether you agree with this form of discipline of not, it is not "beating." Further, when you call spanking a beating, you trivialize actual beatings.

Dont try making a point by listing the definitions of the word spanking.

It can mean alot of things from the kinky to the abusive husband who uses it as a way of "comunication".

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15-01-2014, 07:16 PM
RE: Children and punishments
Children and women cannot be reasoned with. That is why real men need to their fists to get their kifs and their wives to co-operate. Remember guys, fear = respect x 8.
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15-01-2014, 07:17 PM
RE: Children and punishments
Quote:I was spanked, and by no means did I feel "beaten" as a child.

Whether you agree with this form of discipline of not, it is not "beating." Further, when you call spanking a beating, you trivialize actual beatings.

Woah woah woah. I don't know who said this but I must have missed it. Spanking a baby??? What would even be the point?

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15-01-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: Children and punishments
This is an example of the conditioning we inherit from our "caregivers", I used to justify smacking as deserved, and spoilt nasty children was due to no smacking.
"Look at that shitty child, he needs a good spanking"
(I've said this many times)

Its just not true, nasty kids come from nasty or absent parents. Good kids come from good parents.
Its the good in the parent that is important , not the spanking.
Reasons why parents smack.

Child will be spoilt brat if they don't
They think it is good parenting / ordained by god.
No patience to explain the crime consequences.
Think they have tried all other options.
Resent the child, blamed for spouse issues
Soft target for a sadist
Awful reasons I wont mention.

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15-01-2014, 07:26 PM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 07:37 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Children and punishments
Study Says Yelling Is As Hurtful as Hitting

Is it right to hit people? No. Are children people? Yes, they are. So why do we hit children? Because they can't behave? If mental deficiency justifies hitting, then we should also hit our old senile parents if they lose keys or wallet or break something. Our children should be justified to beat us up when we get old. Isn't that so? No? So why we beat children? Imagine someone three times as big as you beating you and yelling at you. What kind of message do you think that sends? Big people are allowed to beat smaller people. Strong people rule, weak must obey. Might makes right.
If you saw a big man assaulting some child actor star from a well-known film movie for all family, would you go and save the child from attack? But as long as that violent adult is the parent, you do nothing, you don't come for help, and you try to justify his actions and his anger.

Spanking children is assaulting and torturing children. It causes aggression, brain damage, lowering IQ, mental problems and so on. It's practically worse than drugs.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-...-the-brain
When is it the time that we stop hitting children and they are supposed to turn from the victims to normal, happy, emotionally balanced people, who aren't the least bit oppressed or oppressive, who can wield guns, steering wheels, bottles, voting ballots and condoms without causing damage?

There should be no child spanking debate, (or circumcision debate) just as there is no domestic violence debate, gay lynching debate, nigger whipping debate, Jew gassing debate or witch burning debate. Assaulting children turns the average American home into a small domestic Abu Ghraib prison, or in milder cases, a prohibition era Chicago where mafia beats the crap out of you just once and then you remember and obey.





I am greatly inspired by practices of non-violent parenting, non-violent parent-child relationship. This good relationship is really the only thing that gives you influence over the child. And violence destroys that relationship. Violence is the coward's way out of parenting. When you have the ultimate Guantanamo gambit in your sleeve, you do not have to think about what the life is for the child. You do not have to build relationship, earn respect and love, you do not have to be a better person. You never have to talk with the kid and explain things to him, you just beat him up when he does something wrong, something you never explained or showed on an example and never asked if he understands, never gave a control question to be sure, never trained the scenario, never gave notices in advance.

I have not loved my parents or brothers. I always wondered why. The truth is, children do not love their parents. What they do is not love, it's neediness, dependence and fear. You can not love someone who tortures you into compliance. Love has to be earned and parents are not motivated to do that, they have all the benefits of love (dependent child) but none of the duties to keep the relationship alive. When they don't like something, they start yelling, hitting, taking the child's property away, restricting their freedom - and we are supposed to love these people? How? How is it that mom beats me up and when is the time that I start loving her again? How can I tell her about any of my worries or problems when I know that she will only get upset and yell? I know I had extremely well-meaning parents, but in practice that turned down to nothing.





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15-01-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 07:17 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
Quote:I was spanked, and by no means did I feel "beaten" as a child.

Whether you agree with this form of discipline of not, it is not "beating." Further, when you call spanking a beating, you trivialize actual beatings.

Woah woah woah. I don't know who said this but I must have missed it. Spanking a baby??? What would even be the point?

Spankers are like Theists turning to Deists when you corner them with facts.
When you can't justify spanking a child that you can reason with, the fall back justification is well I can still spank babies because they can't be reasoned with.

You could point out whole countries that have normal kids that were never spanked, but that is irrelevant as they are too busy concocting reasons why the spankings they have already dished out were righteous.

People have a hard time admitting they are wrong about something, even atheists.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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15-01-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Children and punishments
(15-01-2014 07:22 PM)sporehux Wrote:  This is an example of the conditioning we inherit from our "caregivers", I used to justify smacking as deserved, and spoilt nasty children was due to no smacking.
"Look at that shitty child, he needs a good spanking"
(I've said this many times)

Its just not true, nasty kids come from nasty or absent parents. Good kids come from good parents.
Its the good in the parent that is important , not the spanking.
Reasons why parents smack.

Child will be spoilt brat if they don't
They think it is good parenting / ordained by god.
No patience to explain the crime consequences.
Think they have tried all other options.
Resent the child, blamed for spouse issues
Soft target for a sadist
Awful reasons I wont mention.

My parents saw me as a science project. Both of them are well educated academics with high crudentials. And they wanted their children to be "wonderchildren". The beatings were a method of "motivation" to get me into learning languages, the piano and other stuff before I was even old enought to go to school. I was not allowed to follow my own interests and develope my personality by myself. It is a very weird thing that I can hardly describe but I have this horrible feeling that my childhood was stolen, that it is missing and that this somehow does not make me completly human, because there is something gone that every other human has. I sometimes even wish that I could be a child again to get something back.

I know that my parents were abused aswell and to some extent even worse and I also believe that they mainly did it out of sadist motivations.

I also never realy got to know them as people on personal level. I forgave them a few years ago when they begged for it and appologised, yet my suspicions towards them remain.

If anything, they made me violent. But I cant pin it down to them alone since my entire childhood was filled with violence from people from all corners at life.
It also made me resent all people that prey on weak peole, who gain amusement out of hurting people.

The simple reason why I cant condone any violence against children is that it fundermentaly is violence against someone who is weak- I believe I can judge not just people but entire cultures on societies and how they treat their weakest, since being confronted with someone weak means that one has the responsibility to take care of them and nothing else.

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