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China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
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06-10-2015, 05:34 AM
China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
I'm afraid they've hit the nail on the head...

Here is a site owned and operated by the scholar, Bill Warner, Phd.
politicalislam.com

Basically, Islam is an authoritarian dictatorship with a religious agenda. Any takers?
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06-10-2015, 05:38 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
Religion and politics have much the same goal -- domination.

Just without the leather, whips and "safewords"...

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06-10-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 05:34 AM)Revolutionary Wrote:  I'm afraid they've hit the nail on the head...

Here is a site owned and operated by the scholar, Bill Warner, Phd.
politicalislam.com

Basically, Islam is an authoritarian dictatorship with a religious agenda. Any takers?

There are about 1.6 billion muslims in the world, yet there's nothing equivalent to the vatican, some organized hierarchy, no established orthodoxy, no dictates on how the Quran is to be interpreted and read, etc....

So there's no "basically Islam", no broad brush to paint a population of over a billion with. Muslims in American are likely to be of an entirely different sort than the ones that occupy Europe. Two randomly selected atheists are likely to have more in common, than two randomly selected muslims.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-10-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 06:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 05:34 AM)Revolutionary Wrote:  I'm afraid they've hit the nail on the head...

Here is a site owned and operated by the scholar, Bill Warner, Phd.
politicalislam.com

Basically, Islam is an authoritarian dictatorship with a religious agenda. Any takers?

There are about 1.6 billion muslims in the world, yet there's nothing equivalent to the vatican, some organized hierarchy, no established orthodoxy, no dictates on how the Quran is to be interpreted and read, etc....

So there's no "basically Islam", no broad brush to paint a population of over a billion with. Muslims in American are likely to be of an entirely different sort than the ones that occupy Europe. Two randomly selected atheists are likely to have more in common, than two randomly selected muslims.

You.. know this is far from truth right? I'm not sure what your point is about it. Part of the schizisms in Islam is of the different view to where the lineage and order post Mohammed ought to of come from. There's a series of higher clergy with the Ayatollahs on one side and Imams elsewhere. Then there is grand ones above em.

That little inconsistency you speak is the same for Christians. Even Catholics across the world of a US, European, or South American backgrounds aren't united by the churches motivation. It'll be more than some groups probably, but when you talk about Protestants, that's when that is open beyond anything you get in much of Islam.

It seems interesting and fitting in every way really that China's view would be labeling it a political movement.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-10-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 09:09 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It seems interesting and fitting in every way really that China's view would be labeling it a political movement.

That the most heavily disenfranchised minorities in China just happen to be Muslim, is, I'm sure, entirely coincidental.

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06-10-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 09:09 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(06-10-2015 06:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There are about 1.6 billion muslims in the world, yet there's nothing equivalent to the vatican, some organized hierarchy, no established orthodoxy, no dictates on how the Quran is to be interpreted and read, etc....

So there's no "basically Islam", no broad brush to paint a population of over a billion with. Muslims in American are likely to be of an entirely different sort than the ones that occupy Europe. Two randomly selected atheists are likely to have more in common, than two randomly selected muslims.

You.. know this is far from truth right? I'm not sure what your point is about it. Part of the schizisms in Islam is of the different view to where the lineage and order post Mohammed ought to of come from. There's a series of higher clergy with the Ayatollahs on one side and Imams elsewhere. Then there is grand ones above em.

That little inconsistency you speak is the same for Christians. Even Catholics across the world of a US, European, or South American backgrounds aren't united by the churches motivation. It'll be more than some groups probably, but when you talk about Protestants, that's when that is open beyond anything you get in much of Islam.

It seems interesting and fitting in every way really that China's view would be labeling it a political movement.

True, there are a number of determining factors for basing the interpretation on; the hadith mainly - islamic scholars are basically accepted when they assert fundamentalist ideology while practically the entire muslim population reject any muslim who claims fundamentalist ideology is un-Islamic as not being Muslim.
The Caliphate is one such ideology which can't be separated from Islam. A Caliph has been declared through IS Imams and various communities around the world but many muslims will follow the advice from the Muslim Brotherhood to disassociate with known terrorist organisations/individuals. So of what little rejection we're hearing from muslim's a certain percentage will just be dissemination for other muslim individuals/groups to discontinue association/ties.
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06-10-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 09:21 AM)Revolutionary Wrote:  islamic scholars are basically accepted when they assert fundamentalist ideology while practically the entire muslim population reject any muslim who claims fundamentalist ideology is un-Islamic as not being Muslim.

Citation needed.

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06-10-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
I don't know whether anyone has actually written on this fact. I'll bear this thread in mind if I happen upon a credible source. In sharing the effective reasons for this observation:
Muslims agree:
*Everything in the koran was written by Allah and is in its word perfect state as circulated.
*Everything in the koran is true
*There is no contradiction in the koran
*Questioning islam, islamic doctrine, the caliph, and any other innovative idea/expression/thought process is haram!
*The koran is not a guide but a directive to a variety of actions
*It is widely known that muslims aren't demonstrating against IS, terrorism, extremist behaviour, etc. Those who are a by far a lower percentage of Muslims than the extremists!
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06-10-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 09:37 AM)Revolutionary Wrote:  I don't know whether anyone has actually written on this fact. I'll bear this thread in mind if I happen upon a credible source. In sharing the effective reasons for this observation:
Muslims agree:
*Everything in the koran was written by Allah and is in its word perfect state as circulated.
*Everything in the koran is true
*There is no contradiction in the koran
*Questioning islam, islamic doctrine, the caliph, and any other innovative idea/expression/thought process is haram!
*The koran is not a guide but a directive to a variety of actions
*It is widely known that muslims aren't demonstrating against IS, terrorism, extremist behaviour, etc. Those who are a by far a lower percentage of Muslims than the extremists!

All Muslims are no more literal fundamentalists than all Christians are. The same cop-out applies: for those who do not wish to deny reality, they can continue to maintain that the whole of their scripture is perfectly true, if only it is understood correctly.

It is not possible to deduce the opinions of people who live in societies without freedom of expression. Although one might note that the fraction of practicing Muslims belonging to ISIS is on the order of one in ten thousand.

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06-10-2015, 12:39 PM
RE: China: Islam is a dangerous political movement
(06-10-2015 09:09 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You.. know this is far from truth right? I'm not sure what your point is about it. Part of the schizisms in Islam is of the different view to where the lineage and order post Mohammed ought to of come from. There's a series of higher clergy with the Ayatollahs on one side and Imams elsewhere. Then there is grand ones above em.

That little inconsistency you speak is the same for Christians. Even Catholics across the world of a US, European, or South American backgrounds aren't united by the churches motivation. It'll be more than some groups probably, but when you talk about Protestants, that's when that is open beyond anything you get in much of Islam.

Ayatollah are primarily a thing among Shias, who makeup about 10% of all muslims.

But yes, the position of 1.6 billion muslims, is somewhat comparable to the situation among the billion or so Protestants. The point being that any broad stroke to frame Islam is this or that, is going to be as inaccurate, as trying to speak of the Westboro Baptist and the Mennonites as one thing.

Even as a Christian, I'm more likely to have a common set of values, and outlook comparable to a brown skinned American muslim, than I'm likely to have with some white guy in the bible belt.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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