China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
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31-03-2013, 11:28 PM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(31-03-2013 09:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  My bias is more against China because I know people who have been poisoned by products exported from that criminal enterprise.

I heard that when westerners make arguments, they would provide evidences.

So, what's the percentage of the goods poisoned? Intentionally or of bad quality control? What's the percentage of similar faulty US products as a comparison?

How large is the scale of Chinese enterprise criminal activity? And how large is that of the U.S. as an comparison?

If you have solid data other than what you heard from the media or friends, I shall acknowledge the fact and thank you for your effort.

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01-04-2013, 07:16 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(31-03-2013 11:28 PM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(31-03-2013 09:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  My bias is more against China because I know people who have been poisoned by products exported from that criminal enterprise.

I heard that when westerners make arguments, they would provide evidences.

So, what's the percentage of the goods poisoned? Intentionally or of bad quality control? What's the percentage of similar faulty US products as a comparison?

How large is the scale of Chinese enterprise criminal activity? And how large is that of the U.S. as an comparison?

If you have solid data other than what you heard from the media or friends, I shall acknowledge the fact and thank you for your effort.


You have already acknowledged that China does not respect international copyright and patents, therefore they are criminal.

Children's toys made from toxic metals have been exported to the U.S. You're asking about percentages? The tolerance for something this callous and heartless is zero.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2013, 07:32 AM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2013 07:37 AM by HU.Junyuan.)
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(01-04-2013 07:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-03-2013 11:28 PM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  I heard that when westerners make arguments, they would provide evidences.

So, what's the percentage of the goods poisoned? Intentionally or of bad quality control? What's the percentage of similar faulty US products as a comparison?

How large is the scale of Chinese enterprise criminal activity? And how large is that of the U.S. as an comparison?

If you have solid data other than what you heard from the media or friends, I shall acknowledge the fact and thank you for your effort.


You have already acknowledged that China does not respect international copyright and patents, therefore they are criminal.

Children's toys made from toxic metals have been exported to the U.S. You're asking about percentages? The tolerance for something this callous and heartless is zero.

I asked about percentages. I saw no data.

And can I interpret you words as that things this callous and heartless have NEVER been done by ANY U.S. citizen and are TOTALLY not possible on U.S. soil, and NO citizen in the U.S. ever DISRESPECT international copyright and patents ?

If so, thank you sir. No more questions.

I tried to make friendly conversations with you and I failed. Thank you sir again. No more intentions to do so.

Let us treat each other like empty air. Good for us both.

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01-04-2013, 07:57 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(01-04-2013 07:32 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(01-04-2013 07:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  You have already acknowledged that China does not respect international copyright and patents, therefore they are criminal.

Children's toys made from toxic metals have been exported to the U.S. You're asking about percentages? The tolerance for something this callous and heartless is zero.

I asked about percentages. I saw no data.

And can I interpret you words as that things this callous and heartless have NEVER been done by ANY U.S. citizen and are TOTALLY not possible on U.S. soil, and NO citizen in the U.S. ever DISRESPECT international copyright and patents ?

If so, thank you sir. No more questions.

I tried to make friendly conversations with you and I failed. Thank you sir again. No more intentions to do so.

Let us treat each other like empty air. Good for us both.


Deflection. You have no answer so you want to ignore me. I think I have your measure, now.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-04-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(01-04-2013 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-04-2013 07:32 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  I asked about percentages. I saw no data.

And can I interpret you words as that things this callous and heartless have NEVER been done by ANY U.S. citizen and are TOTALLY not possible on U.S. soil, and NO citizen in the U.S. ever DISRESPECT international copyright and patents ?

If so, thank you sir. No more questions.

I tried to make friendly conversations with you and I failed. Thank you sir again. No more intentions to do so.

Let us treat each other like empty air. Good for us both.


Deflection. You have no answer so you want to ignore me. I think I have your measure, now.

Like I said. Thank you, sir.

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01-04-2013, 08:18 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
The state of the Doha round of trade negotiation is a problem for all of us. Many nations have their sticking points that make global agreement difficult. Agricultural trade has been a particular problem and cultural issues between the major economies have not helped.

Bilateral and multilateral agreements are a stop-gap, but also a chess game where one or two powerful nations try to establish the new international trade standards by agreeing those standards with individual nations ahead of returning eventually to global talks.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-04-2013, 08:24 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(01-04-2013 08:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  The state of the Doha round of trade negotiation is a problem for all of us. Many nations have their sticking points that make global agreement difficult. Agricultural trade has been a particular problem and cultural issues between the major economies have not helped.

Bilateral and multilateral agreements are a stop-gap, but also a chess game where one or two powerful nations try to establish the new international trade standards by agreeing those standards with individual nations ahead of returning eventually to global talks.

Totally agreed. And there should never be powerful corporations like the East India Company again, which kind of beasts the current TPP policies are likely to create in the future.

What do you think?

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01-04-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
There should never be corporations that are able to make war in order to secure their markets, either overtly through their own military power or through the direct backing of a nation state. Corporations must abide by the rule of law. Likewise, antitrust legislation should ensure that monopolies cannot develop to drastically distort markets and reduce competition. It would also be best in my opinion if governments were decoupled from their major corporations and not be driving negotiations of these types too closely. Government should govern for the benefit of its people, and governments should have one eye on the interests of the globe during negotiations such as these.

Is that what you meant, or do you want to open up the subject more broadly to the question of why this round of talks has failed?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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01-04-2013, 08:49 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
(01-04-2013 08:24 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote:  
(01-04-2013 08:18 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  The state of the Doha round of trade negotiation is a problem for all of us. Many nations have their sticking points that make global agreement difficult. Agricultural trade has been a particular problem and cultural issues between the major economies have not helped.

Bilateral and multilateral agreements are a stop-gap, but also a chess game where one or two powerful nations try to establish the new international trade standards by agreeing those standards with individual nations ahead of returning eventually to global talks.

Totally agreed. And there should never be powerful corporations like the East India Company again, which kind of beasts the current TPP policies are likely to create in the future.

What do you think?


It has nothing to do with current TPP or current any other policies. It has to do with the fact that wealthy people populate government. They use their power to enrich their wealthy friends, punish their enemies and, of course, further enrich themselves. They don't care who pays the ultimate price for their predations and this is clearly evidenced by a critical examination of any government in any country, regardless its structure.

This will always be the case for as long as people allow a small minority of their population to maintain a monopoly on the initiation of force and coercion.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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01-04-2013, 09:55 AM
RE: China's Ministry of Commerce responded to Japan's joining the TPP negotiations
So what is the answer folks?

Most countries have 'representative' forms of government just because of the impracticality of the logistics of asking everyone their opinion on every question.

This leads to lobbyism (I think I might have invented a new word there).

Will the internet change this? If so, how?

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