Choices
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01-11-2014, 09:25 AM
RE: Choices
(31-10-2014 10:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 01:40 AM)Switz5678 Wrote:  I made no claims retaining my identity if that's even what you are implying? I don't understand ' identity is a function of decision space limited by environment' what are you saying? Please explain how we have derived a test to measure this that is valid.

If you don't retain your identity, the whole concept of an afterlife is meaningless. You are either seriously confused, or you are doing a very bad job of getting your point across. There is no evidence for any afterlife. We don't need any "valid test" to determine that. We tend not to believe things for which there is no evidence, regardless of how nice it would be if they were true.

Quite the contrary, there exists tons of evidence which you choose to either embrace or not. There is more evidence for "God Created" than the big bang and string theory, yet Id bet you believe in the later and not the former.
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01-11-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: Choices
(31-10-2014 06:59 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:32 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  No one is born a muslim or a Christian or an atheist. We are born as humans. Now it could be that we are born into a family that is religious or non religious. Most people are born into a religious family. But we still make our decisions and we are still a sum total of those decisions. I "decided" to study every day. I "decided" to look deep into my religion. I decided it was good to be educated. I decided to pursue it. I decided my religion makes better sense than Atheism.

I don't think you can say "no we are not the sum total of our decisions" Smile

Every one of us, myself writing now, and those reading this later, are exactly where we are right now because every decision we have ever made brought us here to this vey moment.

But you're missing something.

We have 4 memory storage systems which our biochemistry uses to facilitate decision-making / choices.

You seem to be focusing on only one of these.

I often consider the influences that helped me 'decide' that I was (already) an atheist... David Attenborough, Douglas Adams, the bible, etc. but I sometimes need to be reminded that not all decisions are within my control.

I just watched a documentary on Dave Allen.

I was too young to remember much about his shows so I don't think he was a direct influence on me but the documentary reminded me of his contribution to the changing zeitgeist in the 60s and 70s and the undermining of and challenging of the accepted authority of the church.

So, I will say that we are not the sum of our decisions.

Unless 'our' is used in a societal sense.

Smartass

Explain to me how you are NOT the sum total of your decisions please Smile
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01-11-2014, 09:30 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 09:25 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 10:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  If you don't retain your identity, the whole concept of an afterlife is meaningless. You are either seriously confused, or you are doing a very bad job of getting your point across. There is no evidence for any afterlife. We don't need any "valid test" to determine that. We tend not to believe things for which there is no evidence, regardless of how nice it would be if they were true.

Quite the contrary, there exists tons of evidence which you choose to either embrace or not. There is more evidence for "God Created" than the big bang and string theory, yet Id bet you believe in the later and not the former.

Put your money where your fucking mouth is. Drinking Beverage

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01-11-2014, 09:34 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 09:37 AM by Wolfbitn.)
RE: Choices
Tarturus said:
Quote:Put your money where your fucking mouth is

Start the thread... me and you, 1 on 1 with no one else. I will defend Genesis 1 you will defend the big bang and string. We will show:

1) Which has been most tested in the scientific sense

2) Which fared better in testing

3) Which is then the superior set of theories

Start it any time you like with the understanding this is 1 on 1, with no other posters in the thread. We can have a side thread for open discussion.

Mine is now on the table... all it awaits is agreement and the opening post.
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01-11-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 09:26 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 06:59 PM)DLJ Wrote:  But you're missing something.

We have 4 memory storage systems which our biochemistry uses to facilitate decision-making / choices.

You seem to be focusing on only one of these.

I often consider the influences that helped me 'decide' that I was (already) an atheist... David Attenborough, Douglas Adams, the bible, etc. but I sometimes need to be reminded that not all decisions are within my control.

I just watched a documentary on Dave Allen.

I was too young to remember much about his shows so I don't think he was a direct influence on me but the documentary reminded me of his contribution to the changing zeitgeist in the 60s and 70s and the undermining of and challenging of the accepted authority of the church.

So, I will say that we are not the sum of our decisions.

Unless 'our' is used in a societal sense.

Smartass

Explain to me how you are NOT the sum total of your decisions please Smile
.

We have four 'memory' sources:
1. The collective body of world knowledge / zeitgeist
2. Central Nervous System
3. Immune System
4. DNA

All four influence our decisions but I think you are referring only to #2 when you say "I decided my religion makes better sense than Atheism".

#1 is why many of my acquaintances (erroneously) refer to themselves as being 'born' a muslim.

Would you not agree?

Smartass

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01-11-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 09:34 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Tarturus said:
Quote:Put your money where your fucking mouth is

Start the thread... me and you, 1 on 1 with no one else. I will defend Genesis 1 you will defend the big bang and string. We will show:

1) Which has been most tested in the scientific sense

2) Which fared better in testing

3) Which is then the superior set of theories

Start it any time you like with the understanding this is 1 on 1, with no other posters in the thread. We can have a side thread for open discussion.

Mine is now on the table... all it awaits is agreement and the opening post.

I don't debate people with the intellectual flexibility of a turnip.

Why can't you provide your fucking sources here? Why do you refuse to actually respond to points made and just spew out the same garbage irrespective of their relevancy in accordance to counterpoints provided?

If you want to have a one on one debate, you need to earn yourself the privilege of being worth the time.

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01-11-2014, 09:49 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 09:56 AM by Wolfbitn.)
RE: Choices
I didn't think so Grasshopper... talk all you like, you don't have the ass for it. Im more than just talk, so any time, the challenge is open to ANYONE HERE for the 1 on 1.
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01-11-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 09:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 09:26 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Explain to me how you are NOT the sum total of your decisions please Smile
.

We have four 'memory' sources:
1. The collective body of world knowledge / zeitgeist
2. Central Nervous System
3. Immune System
4. DNA

All four influence our decisions but I think you are referring only to #2 when you say "I decided my religion makes better sense than Atheism".

#1 is why many of my acquaintances (erroneously) refer to themselves as being 'born' a muslim.

Would you not agree?

Smartass

No.. I don't agree. You've not shown how any of these effect anything in keeping one from making a decision. Those are only circumstances with which one is faced and must make eventual decisions... It doesn't matter what society youre born into, and the aboriginal is not aware of the "world body of knowledge", and even if he were he still makes a decision regarding everything from when he gets up to when he goes to bed.

What about the things you offer disallow our personal decisions? Youre going to have to make this clear.
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01-11-2014, 10:01 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 09:53 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 09:43 AM)DLJ Wrote:  We have four 'memory' sources:
1. The collective body of world knowledge / zeitgeist
2. Central Nervous System
3. Immune System
4. DNA

All four influence our decisions but I think you are referring only to #2 when you say "I decided my religion makes better sense than Atheism".

#1 is why many of my acquaintances (erroneously) refer to themselves as being 'born' a muslim.

Would you not agree?

Smartass

No.. I don't agree. You've not shown how any of these effect anything in keeping one from making a decision. Those are only circumstances with which one is faced and must make eventual decisions... It doesn't matter what society youre born into, and the aboriginal is not aware of the "world body of knowledge", and even if he were he still makes a decision regarding everything from when he gets up to when he goes to bed.

What about the things you offer disallow our personal decisions? Youre going to have to make this clear.

Perhaps you missed my point.

The thread title is "Choices". In your use of the word "decisions", you seem to referring to conscious choices.

And yup, aborigines are also influenced by zeitgeist. Don't cherry-pick. Bad form, ol' boy.

Dodgy

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01-11-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 10:01 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 09:53 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  No.. I don't agree. You've not shown how any of these effect anything in keeping one from making a decision. Those are only circumstances with which one is faced and must make eventual decisions... It doesn't matter what society youre born into, and the aboriginal is not aware of the "world body of knowledge", and even if he were he still makes a decision regarding everything from when he gets up to when he goes to bed.

What about the things you offer disallow our personal decisions? Youre going to have to make this clear.

Perhaps you missed my point.

The thread title is "Choices". In your use of the word "decisions", you seem to referring to conscious choices.

And yup, aborigines are also influenced by zeitgeist. Don't cherry-pick. Bad form, ol' boy.

Dodgy

We have a choice, in every choice before us... Im afraid its not me missing the point. Name one instance where you don't have a choice to make... your decision is therefore your individual choice regarding the choices before you.

Im afraid you cant produce any instance where you don't have a choice, and you cant show how these personal choices don't define us. You will for instance, choose to either ignore this post, or address it. Youre pretty good at talking back when talked to so I choose to talk to you as well, and I choose then to predict that youll respond by choice. Smile
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