Choices
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01-11-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 11:31 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 10:19 AM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  We have a choice, in every choice before us... Im afraid its not me missing the point. Name one instance where you don't have a choice to make... your decision is therefore your individual choice regarding the choices before you.

Im afraid you cant produce any instance where you don't have a choice, and you cant show how these personal choices don't define us. You will for instance, choose to either ignore this post, or address it. Youre pretty good at talking back when talked to so I choose to talk to you as well, and I choose then to predict that youll respond by choice. Smile

Can't I?

The parents I was born to.
The country I was born in.
The siblings I had.
The genes I developed
The schools I was sent to.
The other schoolchildren who were at those schools.
...
yawn!

You have choices regarding every situation youre in... You can choose to be obedient to your parents or not... You can choose to run away. You can choose to set them up... You can choose to live in that country or leave, you can choose to do be close to a sibling or not, move away from it. share with it, talk to it, ignore it.

You cannot be put into a situation where you then have no choice. You may not have the choice of the circumstances around you that rise... no one does... but the end result of YOU... what defines YOU is what you choose to do with those circumstances.

Some of you people sound like such damned victims here lol Facepalm

Why are you choosing to be a victim of circumstance? Thumbsup
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01-11-2014, 05:13 PM
RE: Choices
(30-10-2014 01:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  It has always been a mystery to me how an atheist can convert and become a believer... does that really ever happen?

I've never seen somebody who was a stone cold atheist turn around and become a believer. Some people who didn't grow up with religious beliefs, but also didn't grow up being raised to be atheist, have chosen the religious route.

I know you get a lot of creationists that say "I used to be an atheist, but now I'm a believer!" Those ones are just a bunch of liars trying to convince people to come to their side.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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01-11-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 05:13 PM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  
(30-10-2014 01:23 PM)Dom Wrote:  It has always been a mystery to me how an atheist can convert and become a believer... does that really ever happen?

I've never seen somebody who was a stone cold atheist turn around and become a believer. Some people who didn't grow up with religious beliefs, but also didn't grow up being raised to be atheist, have chosen the religious route.

I know you get a lot of creationists that say "I used to be an atheist, but now I'm a believer!" Those ones are just a bunch of liars trying to convince people to come to their side.

Really? You know them ALL personally? Wow you get around huh Smile And you still had time to hear every life story, you must be a great listener... and they all must have been very short stories, how old are you? Smile
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01-11-2014, 05:43 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 05:12 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Why are you choosing to be a victim of circumstance? Thumbsup

You are cherry-picking again.

Did you choose your genes?

Girl_nails

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01-11-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 05:43 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 05:12 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Why are you choosing to be a victim of circumstance? Thumbsup

You are cherry-picking again.

Did you choose your genes?

Girl_nails

At wall mart yes... j/k lol

Look... like I said I know we don't create a few of our circumstances, like BIRTH, but everything after the point of cognitive ability and really even before, we are only moved on by our choices. Everything we DO or DONT DO is a choice AFTER our birth... even as twin baby new borns one may CHOOSE to cry or shit itself, the other chooses not to at the moment.

"But I didn't choose to get mugged", well hell no you didn't. But you chose to get up, chose to put on the boots, chose to grab your money, and chose to walk that dark alley unarmed and unaware. Then you chose to pick yer ass back up off the street and do whatever you chose to do after that.

Sure we march right into our circumstances then, and we DO make absolutely every choice about what we do with those circumstances. THIS is what I mean by not being a victim of circumstance. WE should encourage one another to take responsibility for who and what we are and stop crying and blaming everyone and everything else. Mankind has forgotten what it used to be to be a "MAN". Smile
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01-11-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 05:54 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 05:43 PM)DLJ Wrote:  You are cherry-picking again.

Did you choose your genes?

Girl_nails

At wall mart yes... j/k lol

Look... like I said I know we don't create a few of our circumstances, like BIRTH, but everything after the point of cognitive ability and really even before, we are only moved on by our choices. Everything we DO or DONT DO is a choice AFTER our birth... even as twin baby new borns one may CHOOSE to cry or shit itself, the other chooses not to at the moment.

"But I didn't choose to get mugged", well hell no you didn't. But you chose to get up, chose to put on the boots, chose to grab your money, and chose to walk that dark alley unarmed and unaware. Then you chose to pick yer ass back up off the street and do whatever you chose to do after that.

Sure we march right into our circumstances then, and we DO make absolutely every choice about what we do with those circumstances. THIS is what I mean by not being a victim of circumstance. WE should encourage one another to take responsibility for who and what we are and stop crying and blaming everyone and everything else. Mankind has forgotten what it used to be to be a "MAN". Smile

It seems we have reached an understanding.

Yes

Now we can move on to considering the enabling / disabling factors underpinning the decision (or not) to choose to break free from one's initial conditioning (or not).

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01-11-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 06:03 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 05:54 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  At wall mart yes... j/k lol

Look... like I said I know we don't create a few of our circumstances, like BIRTH, but everything after the point of cognitive ability and really even before, we are only moved on by our choices. Everything we DO or DONT DO is a choice AFTER our birth... even as twin baby new borns one may CHOOSE to cry or shit itself, the other chooses not to at the moment.

"But I didn't choose to get mugged", well hell no you didn't. But you chose to get up, chose to put on the boots, chose to grab your money, and chose to walk that dark alley unarmed and unaware. Then you chose to pick yer ass back up off the street and do whatever you chose to do after that.

Sure we march right into our circumstances then, and we DO make absolutely every choice about what we do with those circumstances. THIS is what I mean by not being a victim of circumstance. WE should encourage one another to take responsibility for who and what we are and stop crying and blaming everyone and everything else. Mankind has forgotten what it used to be to be a "MAN". Smile

It seems we have reached an understanding.

Yes

Now we can move on to considering the enabling / disabling factors underpinning the decision (or not) to choose to break free from one's initial conditioning (or not).

Thumbsup

Good to have an understanding and finally agreement in something lol

Wouldn't you also agree that we can choose to enable ourselves though others may try to disable us? I agree we might have to learn a few lessons long the way to motivate us, but the enabling choices are also there for us to just choose them.


Real life story... someone pulled 2 knives on me MANY years ago. My brother was up the road working on a bike and saw it. I was unarmed. I chose to enable myself and arm myself with HIS knives, pushed him up into a foyer and up against the door of a bar, circled his arms simultaneously by both wrists, moved up and snatched his knives. I didnt hurt him but I did scare the shit out of him with his own knives pressed against him... Then I let him go when my brother got there, and kept his knives.... I was not a victim. Don't you agree we can choose to enable ourselves no matter the situation or die trying?
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01-11-2014, 06:55 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 06:59 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 06:14 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...
Don't you agree we can choose to enable ourselves no matter the situation or die trying?

Some choose to. Others choose not to.

That choice is made using the four 'memory' factors described earlier.

But we seem to be now focusing on choice of actions rather than choice of beliefs.

We choose to act based on our beliefs but that does not demonstrate that we choose those beliefs,.

Wink

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01-11-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 06:55 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 06:14 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  ...
Don't you agree we can choose to enable ourselves no matter the situation or die trying?

Some choose to. Others choose not to.

That choice is made using the four 'memory' factors described earlier.

But we seem to be now focusing on choice of actions rather than choice of beliefs.

We choose to act based on our beliefs but that does not demonstrate that we choose those beliefs,.

Wink

I think any thinking person chooses their belief or lack thereof in whatever. We can choose to believe in the government or choose to believe they are a bunch of thieves and sell outs.

I myself examined my own religion EXTREMELY closely, once I became serious about life in general. Iv examined most religions. Iv chosen to study ALL sources, comparing the newer with the older and etc. Iv chosen to also admit the spiritual experiences Iv had, with a very real God.

We may also choose not to take our religion very seriously and pay it relatively no attention at all, as is the case today with many who say they are Christian. We may choose to be followers and just believe everything we are told. I chose to look for myself from all sources possible, giving special weight to the oldest available.

As far as the memory factors we can also make choices that lead to rising above memory factors. We can choose to learn not to be a victim of circumstance. Practice and resilience and will, if we choose to use them and get back up even if we fall 10000 times, DO rise us above circumstance, and memory factors are nothing but another circumstance, just like a mugger in wait. We simply don't have to be a victim to anything, but this kind of will takes a LOT of training and sometimes you really do have to get back up, and it takes a lot of effort. The old temples teaching kung fu put the students through hell... smacked them around to toughen them up... made them abuse their hands and chafe them raw to toughen them in the end.

It takes commitment, and not very many people today are strong enough or even have the will to make those commitments. Our military and police make commitments to protect and serve us... the nation. We expect them to fulfill their commitments. How much more committed should we be when it comes to developing our character?

My namesake Tsun Tsu, was a great military leader and military philosopher. He taught that circumstances mean nothing. He taught that if a man knew himself, only then could he know the enemy. A man that knew himself AND the enemy he said "fight 1000 battles win 1000".

He also knew something about commitment and choice when he said "if you treat your men as your dearest sons, they will follow you into the deepest valley." ...choices. "Knowing thyself"
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01-11-2014, 09:55 PM
RE: Choices
(01-11-2014 05:06 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 12:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Please present your evidence.

you can TRUST im VERY happy to present it... as soon as one of these folk who think they know science take me up on it in a one on one debate that cant be spammed sure Wink

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ute-truths
You've been invited to a debate.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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