Chomsky
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25-09-2017, 07:28 PM
RE: Chomsky
(23-09-2017 04:39 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Here's the problem. As a politiciam, you can't just support Joe and Jane and little Betsy. You have to support large groups of people, and you can only do that in the order of their priority.
Even granting that, that's not how it works in reality.
More often the politician is supporting small groups of people with large groups of dollar$.

Quote:This is one big reason you can't judge people, including politicians, by appearances.

The other big reason would be: they lie like rugs.

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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25-09-2017, 07:42 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 11:26 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 10:47 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  Here's what I don't get, isn't someone who's trying to survive in society without enough money working way harder than someone who has money? They're not even able to afford food. How does that not mean they're not working harder?

I don't know. Are they working?
Mostly.

Quote:How did they get to that place?
Born into it.

Quote:The goal is equality of opportunity. Not equality of outcome.
That is up to the individual.
That depends very much how "equality" gets defined.

"I'll race you to that finish line, 100 yards away. I'll start here; you start from back there, 1/2 mile or so."

Quote:And I think we should have a progressive tax and higher corporate tax to achieve it.
But I am about 100% positive that young people would still be complaining that life is unfair after failing out.
So? People will always complain. It's not what they say that matters, so much as what real opportunities they have.


Quote:The goal is to provide a path for people to work to better themselves.
If they either don't take it or blow it.
Hey, the world needs janitors and fast food workers.
Yeah, the haves always need have-nots to do their share of the dirty work.

Quote:And I don't think that janitors and fast food workers should earn as much as people who took advantage of opportunities and succeeded.
What about those who are janitors and fast food workers because they didn't have other opportunities to take advantage of?

Oh wait, I know: that's why we have a "volunteer" army.

Quote:Work hard and make yourself something and you get rewarded.
If you don't... you sure may end up working very hard but your labor will be not worth very much.
What makes one person's labor worth any more or less than another's?

Quote:It's not a decision that some room full of cigar chomping rich guys make while twirling their mustaches.
True: these days they're more likely to be chomping granola and have full beards.


Quote:It's the economics.
Which, in this country, was defined by the wealthy mercantile class that resided at the top of the economic food chain, and set up to keep them and descendants in their class at the top in perpetuity.

Quote:Unless people want to pay $20 for a Big Mac fast food workers just aren't going to be vacationing in the Bahamas.
If people want that they need to strive for something that pays more.
How do you get there if you have to work three fast food jobs just to pay the rent?

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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25-09-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 07:13 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 07:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I know the guys doing the work, they can already do your job.

But my job hasn't been replaced yet. How long do you think it'll be till I get replaced?

If you're really good, they'll keep you long enough so that the robots can watch you and learn from you for a couple of years (not because they need a couple of years, but because you do to find another job). If you're not, well then.

#sigh
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25-09-2017, 07:51 PM
RE: Chomsky
Rich people don't have to work for their money. Why should poor people? Maybe we'll never rise up and just take whatever the fuck we want but we could.
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25-09-2017, 08:00 PM
RE: Chomsky
I hope my job gets automated.

But then I would own the automation. Big Grin

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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25-09-2017, 08:02 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 02:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 01:33 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  If more and more jobs are being automated I'd take a look around for all the stuff that won't be.

And what pray tell, do you think you see? Which jobs do you think cannot be automated?

Well... I gotta say that I don't think it's going to be quite as cut-and-dried as St, Elon seems to believe.

Yeah, a bunch of jobs will go away. And a bunch of new jobs will arise. Maybe not in a one:to:one ratio, but both are going to happen, whether we can imagine it right now or not.

A hundred and fifty years ago making carriage wheels or buggy whips were rock solid industries. Who imagined that fifty years later the demand would shift to rubber tires and gasoline?

A hundred years ago, who imagined that there would one day be jobs for people sitting in "cubicles" writing "code" for machines? Or creating "apps" for portable phones than you had to type into with your thumbs in order to communicate? Or sitting around watching people wander through stores and parking lot, using "video" cameras?

What telephone operator 50 years ago anticipated that "information security analyst" would become a profession in their lifetime? What truck driver thought that his son might someday have a career as a "drone operator"?

Sure, a lot of that stuff could probably be automated in some fashion or other. But by then there may well be other jobs that we haven't even thought of yet.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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25-09-2017, 08:11 PM (This post was last modified: 25-09-2017 08:17 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 08:02 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Sure, a lot of that stuff could probably be automated in some fashion or other. But by then there may well be other jobs that we haven't even thought of yet.

That's the hope. I too am an optimist. Musk is just a big worrywart. Smile

#sigh
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25-09-2017, 08:25 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 07:28 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 04:39 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  This is one big reason you can't judge people, including politicians, by appearances.

The other big reason would be: they lie like rugs.

Politicians sell different ideas about possible futures, so we give them artistic license.
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25-09-2017, 09:11 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 11:26 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  I don't think that janitors and fast food workers should earn as much as people who took advantage of opportunities and succeeded.

When I was coming up as a poor college kid scraping by on ramen noodles and Mexican brick weed, I worked both in fast food and as a janitor on campus (never did come across that one mathematical proof on a chalkboard to prove my genius, oh well).

You know who I worked with? High school kids and other poor college kids and some of the other poor dregs of society. It was a mostly a job for people who needed to make cash while making moves to get to a better place in life.

The problem these days is that for a lot of people these jobs are all that is available, no matter how qualified they might be for an actual living wage in a job that suits their experience. You can pound pavement all you want, but you're stuck in the race with a million people just like you all qualified for the next rung of the ladder, there's just not enough ladders anymore.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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26-09-2017, 07:03 PM
RE: Chomsky
(25-09-2017 08:25 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(25-09-2017 07:28 PM)Dr H Wrote:  The other big reason would be: they lie like rugs.

Politicians sell different ideas about possible futures, so we give them artistic license.

Ah, it's art, I see, I see.

It's a form of conceptual art, like Piero Manzoni's Merde d'Artiste.
It all begins to make sense, now.

--
Dr H

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