Chomsky
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22-09-2017, 09:44 PM
RE: Chomsky
(22-09-2017 10:55 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  If you want to make more money the answer is to make yourself worth more.
And your time and effort is rewarded.
When people just want someone to wave a wand and start giving more money than the economics support it all goes out the window and becomes a pile of horseshit.

The problem is that not only isn't there a level playing field; some people haven't even been allowed on the field.
You may believe that someone can work themselves up from the gutter to an executive suite, so long as they have ambition, work hard, and persevere, but that fails to recognize that there are a substantial number of people who have to spend the better part of their lives working themselves up to the gutter. Many of them through no fault of their own.

And that issue must be addressed directly. The notion that building-up the upper strata of society will necessarily improve things for everyone is BS.
'A rising tide floats all boats' is only true if there are no boats with holes in them, with crew who lack the wherewithal to patch them. It's not true that everyone starts from zero; some people are on the negative side of the leger from the get-go.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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22-09-2017, 09:49 PM
RE: Chomsky
(22-09-2017 06:15 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  A few years ago my son was telling me he was considering becoming an auto mechanic. He was worried that I wouldn't like that career option, because it was the IT stuff we'd talked about for a long time, but I was tickled, because as I told him -- "It's not like they can drive your car to Bangalore to replace the fuel injectors."

He's getting into IT now. I've got my fingers crossed.

We are not far from the time when an IT background will be a prerequisite for being an auto mechanic.

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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22-09-2017, 09:57 PM
RE: Chomsky
(22-09-2017 06:25 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  That fantastic economy didn't stop the race riots of the 60s, it didn't stop the use of government organs in aiding and abetting the continuation of discrimination, and so while we might have been great economically, our other social issues meant that greatness was indeed in the eye of the beholder. When you couldn't get that great-paying job because of your gender or skin color, what that meant was that the country was great for one segment of society, and the other segments had to shift for themselves in a culture that actively worked against their success -- and what did that cost us as a country?

You're absolutely right, and if you take that to the next step you get to where I think ImFred is coming from. The "great" economy of the 50s and 60s was built on the backs of underpaid laborers unfortunate enough to be of the wrong race, color, gender, or social class. But at root, that's the way capitalism works: you can't have "haves" without there also being "have-nots". Infinite growth is a myth, so the "haves" prosper by figuring out ways to move resources from the "have-nots" into their own possession.

Sooner or later, something has to give. Sometimes the have-nots rebel and take over for a while, and positions shift. but there are still haves and have-nots so long as the system is based on profit. Some of us would like to see a more equitable distribution of resources.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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23-09-2017, 04:39 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2017 04:53 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Chomsky
(22-09-2017 09:02 PM)Dr H Wrote:  What about a party that actually concerns itself primarily with supporting the interests of the people? Wouldn't it be nice to have at least one of those in the game? I mean, considering that our government is supposedly "of the people, by the people, for the people"?
Or have I mistaken empty rhetoric for an actual principle?

Here's the problem. As a politiciam, you can't just support Joe and Jane and little Betsy. You have to support large groups of people, and you can only do that in the order of their priority. The economy and jobs are always high priorities for voters, so corporate interests are always high priorities for politicians.

Here is my theory of priorities. Let's say you have 10 priorities in your life. However, since you have limited time, energy, and money, and all sorts of obstacles to overcome, you can only work on the first 4. That doesn't mean other items weren't on your list, it just means no one can do everything they want.

This is one big reason you can't judge people, including politicians, by appearances.
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23-09-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: Chomsky
(21-09-2017 07:01 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  
(21-09-2017 06:45 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I have no idea why you are trying to sell hatred of Democrats at this forum. You are painting millions of Americans with a very broad brush.

Because I've watched the Democratic party being destroyed and it's entire traditional base move en mass to the right.
My family were democrats for generations. That was before the invasion of the body snatchers.
And smell your own shit.
Take a look at the dialog about the Republicans on the this site.
Get over it.
I'm just not being diplomatic in pointing out that the party has been reduced to "identity politics".
That is synonymous IMO with "Whinny little bitches. Blaming everybody else and whining about how unfair everything is.
And waging their fingers at everybody."
Not sure if you mean one group of dems or liberals are white whiney bitches who blame everyone else... that's also been a big motivating and collective reality of what the conservative movement was.

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23-09-2017, 08:54 AM
RE: Chomsky
(23-09-2017 07:30 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Not sure if you mean one group of dems or liberals are white whiney bitches who blame everyone else... that's also been a big motivating and collective reality of what the conservative movement was.

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Shifting the blame to others for one's failure and difficulties, warranted or not, is a fundamental way humans deal with failures. We almost systematically blame others.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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23-09-2017, 03:48 PM
RE: Chomsky
(22-09-2017 09:57 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Sooner or later, something has to give. Sometimes the have-nots rebel and take over for a while, and positions shift. but there are still haves and have-nots so long as the system is based on profit. Some of us would like to see a more equitable distribution of resources.

Absolutely. "Let them eat cake" is memorable for a reason.
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23-09-2017, 03:59 PM
RE: Chomsky
A rising tide puts you deeper underwater.
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23-09-2017, 06:13 PM
RE: Chomsky
(23-09-2017 03:59 PM)ImFred Wrote:  A rising tide puts you deeper underwater.

Ballast and flotation must be in equilibrium. You're not a science teacher are you? Please tell me you're not a science teacher. Tongue

#sigh
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23-09-2017, 06:40 PM
RE: Chomsky
(23-09-2017 03:59 PM)ImFred Wrote:  A rising tide puts you deeper underwater.

Okay, let's rephrase.

"More boats, even little shitty ones, help more people survive this shit."

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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