Christ Myth Challenge
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22-06-2012, 07:34 AM
Christ Myth Challenge
I am not really a huge denier in the existence of Jesus Christ or whether he was an amalgamation of earlier gods of pagan myth. I read for instance that Horus or Mythra was born of a virgin or that they were crucified and resurrected and this was the basis of the Christ myth and I think it's interesting and might be plausible, but that's about as far as I go. It does not really matter to me whether the Jesus of the bible was a real man or not as it does not really have much bearing on the truthfulness of Christian theology IMO. Even if he did exist it does not mean that what he supposedly did or said was true.

At any rate, I stumbled upon this site and a challenge to the "Christ-mythers" as he calls them at http://www.kingdavid8.com/_full_article....c306f9bbb. I actually think he has a valid argument in that when we read about Horus and say that there are parallels between that god and the life of Christ where are the original "texts" or hieroglyphs that show it's what the Egyptians believed about Horus? It seems like it should be an easy challenge to win, but according to that site none have done it yet. He has the message and responses he's gotten from a few different Christ myth sites on there. It's only $1000, but it's pretty interesting.

I'm all for showing theists how their religion is wrong/false/fictional, but I also want to be honest about it. I'd like to know that what I'm telling them is in fact true and/or based on factual information from some source that can be shown ultimately and not just regurgitating information because it falls in line with what we think about religion.

So, what do you guys think? Anyone up to this guy's challenge?
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22-06-2012, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2012 08:34 AM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
I ultimately don't care if he was a historical person or not. The point I usually make to people is that there is so much universal myth applied to him in the Bible that it is close to impossible to draw out any historical information on him. In essence, the man presented in the Bible is a myth. Take away all of the supernatural elements and miracles and what are you left with?

Regarding his challenge to show textual proof for the other gods that were layered with the same universal myth, I doubt his website is that well known. How many university professors know about his site? Has he made an effort to reach out to non-English speaking experts? Do these professional historians and linguists even care?
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22-06-2012, 08:41 AM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
That's a two step process, there:

1- Theist starts talking about "evidence."

2- [Image: fail.jpg]

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24-06-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
I see it as idiotic, as you could do the same thing with Zeus - there are probably significant parallels with older deities with Zeus as well, but Zeus would be an amalgamation of other influences, plus possibly a few new claims. Adding them together will create a unique individual that you can't point back and find an example of one deity that also fits, but at the same time you also have a Zeus that is based on prior mythologies. The way he's rigged it is dishonest, as the claims are never that there is a single individual that is the basis for Jesus, but that the Jesus myth incorporates many influences from prior deities.

Do I believe that Jesus was a myth? As a person, he probably existed, but none of the supernatural claims bear any weight - the description of Jesus in the Bible is massively exaggerated. Reading the Bible to learn about Jesus is like watching Rambo to learn about Sylvester Stallone.

Better without God, and happier too.
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24-06-2012, 07:13 PM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
Just a note that it's not just Horus, there's tons of them in pretty much every major religion.
All born to virgins, all visited by 3 men (sometimes Kings, sometimes wise men, they spice it up from religion to religion), all were brutally killed and all risen 3 days after their death.
OH, and all had 12 followers and all preformed magic acts at children's birthdays.

It's beyond myth, it's just fucking plagiarism now.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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25-06-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
Given what exists about Jesus, I'd be willing to say there was an actual man named Jesus of Nazareth who existed at that time, who fell into disrepute with the Pharisees and the Romans and was crucified in Judea approx 30 C.E. Beyond that the details get pretty iffy as what's left are holy scriptures which have a lot of conflicting information and were written based on word of mouth doctrines from early churches starting about 70 C.E.

So Jesus was quite possibly a man.

Was he the Son of God?

What do you believe?

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26-06-2012, 03:03 AM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2012 03:07 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
(25-06-2012 11:07 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Given what exists about Jesus, I'd be willing to say there was an actual man named Jesus of Nazareth who existed at that time, who fell into disrepute with the Pharisees and the Romans and was crucified in Judea approx 30 C.E. Beyond that the details get pretty iffy as what's left are holy scriptures which have a lot of conflicting information and were written based on word of mouth doctrines from early churches starting about 70 C.E.

So Jesus was quite possibly a man.

Was he the Son of God?

What do you believe?
Considering the name was popular at the time I wouldn't be surprised. Which may also imply different prophets by the same name (jesus) preaching what ever and getting those stories mixed into the bible.

If that was the case I'd laugh.

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26-06-2012, 04:07 AM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
I've seen a number of television shows on the case for the existence of a historical Jesus and it seems quite plausible that there was indeed a person matching his description. However, there has never been any proof that this person was anything other than possibly a good motivational speaker.

How hard would it be for word of mouth over hundreds of years to turn, "Wow this guy has a good message" to "This guy name Jesus, my friends friends uncles father talked to somebody who said their mom saw him walk on water". Its not hard to develop a character over a long time span with no other method of communciation than word of mouth. Look what we've done with him over a relatively short period of time. He has gone from an olive skinned, short, curly black haired person to a six foot tall, tanned caucasian, with blue eyes, long flowing hair, and a six pack.

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I am . . . until I'm not
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30-06-2012, 09:50 PM
RE: Christ Myth Challenge
(26-06-2012 04:07 AM)free2011 Wrote:  How hard would it be for word of mouth over hundreds of years to turn, "Wow this guy has a good message" to "This guy name Jesus, my friends friends uncles father talked to somebody who said their mom saw him walk on water". Its not hard to develop a character over a long time span with no other method of communciation than word of mouth. Look what we've done with him over a relatively short period of time. He has gone from an olive skinned, short, curly black haired person to a six foot tall, tanned caucasian, with blue eyes, long flowing hair, and a six pack.

That's basically how I see it too: one epic game of telephone.

It becomes really easy to see when you account for how people like to tell stories: exaggerate for emphasis. People do it all the time. Everyone has seen this happen. Hell I'd bet that everyone on this forum (including myself) has been guilty of it at some time or other. In this case you get literally decades, even centuries of exaggerated retellings of the same story until we are left with what we have now. What was once a man holding the head of an epileptic having a seizure until the seizure subsided (and thus "healing" him, or casting out demons or whatever) turned into the son of god curing the blind and rising from the dead.

Everyone has the right to an opinion and to defend that opinion without ridicule.
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