"Christian Atheists"
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25-01-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:49 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Every definition of christianity that I've ever heard includes the belief that christ was the son of god.

Not the Jehovah's Witnesses.

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25-01-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:49 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Every definition of christianity that I've ever heard includes the belief that christ was the son of god.

Not the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Then I stand corrected.

I reiterate my earlier question to you regarding Christ's teachings. The bible describes Christ as a person who advocated eternal, ultimate suffering for earthly, minor transgressions. Do you agree with those teachings?

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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25-01-2016, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 03:22 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:56 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I reiterate my earlier question to you regarding Christ's teachings. The bible describes Christ as a person who advocated eternal, ultimate suffering for earthly, minor transgressions. Do you agree with those teachings?

Nope. My interpretation of "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2 KJV) is not that it is imminent but rather that it is immediate. This is both heaven and hell and you get to choose which. As for any eternal punishment well that would require a postmortem preservation of identity and that is simply complete and utter bullshit. Dualism is untenable.




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25-01-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:23 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't mean to get too "no true scotsman"-ish, but it seems fairly widely accepted that to be a Christian involves believing in a deity (THE deity).

Really? There are many many different interpretations of Christianity. Jehova Witnesses "have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine." and there is no afterlife until the Armageddon and then only 144,000 will enter into heaven which ironically is located on Earth. The rest just simply cease to exist. There is no Hell. Only the abyss. Universal reconciliationists beleive that Jesus died for all of humanity's sins en toto regardless of how we behave or act. The Mormons do not accept the Trinity and replace it with polytheism and believe we are all gods in training and this is our proving grounds. And so on and on and on. Are these denominations not Christian? Why is the idea of Christian atheism any more bizarre than these?
Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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25-01-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
At this point there probably is no universally accepted definition of "Christianity" given how people will pop out new religions/sects/denominations for however they want to interpret that stupid book. So if we just say that Christianity can mean whatever the adherent thinks it means, then the word has basically lost meaning, so it doesn't matter what else you tag onto it. If we have gotten to the point where you can tag the word "atheist" onto the word "Christian" then it just points out that the word Christian means nothing without context. Maybe that's your point in all this, I don't know.

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25-01-2016, 04:07 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:47 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Catholic in the sense that you still take part in religious tradition, yet no longer believe.
Well, you already know that you and I disagree on personal labels (as we discussed earlier when I said if you meet the criteria of being an atheist then you are an atheist whether or not you choose to label yourself as such). I don't know much about Catholicism, but if the criteria/definition involve only taking part in tradition and ceremonies, and belief is not a requirement of being a catholic, then I would have no problem with calling yourself a catholic atheist.

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25-01-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 03:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I don't recall anyone rejecting Romney as a Christian. The Seventh Day Adventists, like the Jehovah's Witnesses are also annihilationists who don't believe in eternal damnation and judgmentalists relying on works to reconcile with God. I don't hear anyone questioning Carson's Christianity. Trump hasn't even read the Bible and quotes "Second Corinthians 3:17" as "Two Corinthians 3:17" and I don't hear anyone saying he isn't a Christian.

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25-01-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 04:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 03:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I don't recall anyone rejecting Romney as a Christian. The Seventh Day Adventists, like the Jehovah's Witnesses are also annihilationists who don't believe in eternal damnation and judgmentalists relying on works to reconcile with God. I don't hear anyone questioning Carson's Christianity. Trump hasn't even read the Bible and quotes "Second Corinthians 3:17" as "Two Corinthians 3:17" and I don't hear anyone saying he isn't a Christian.
As I said, it depends on the definition of Christianity you use. And if the definition is so comprehensive that it is basically "anything goes" then it holds no real meaning, in my opinion.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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25-01-2016, 04:29 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 03:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Really? There are many many different interpretations of Christianity. Jehova Witnesses "have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine." and there is no afterlife until the Armageddon and then only 144,000 will enter into heaven which ironically is located on Earth. The rest just simply cease to exist. There is no Hell. Only the abyss. Universal reconciliationists beleive that Jesus died for all of humanity's sins en toto regardless of how we behave or act. The Mormons do not accept the Trinity and replace it with polytheism and believe we are all gods in training and this is our proving grounds. And so on and on and on. Are these denominations not Christian? Why is the idea of Christian atheism any more bizarre than these?
Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I agree. It seems mighty strange that someone would call oneself xtian if they don't acknowledge the existence/godhood of the putative Jesus. But then, it's all BS, anyway, and if people want to play semantic games they can do that. Smells funny to me, is all. Seems a bit dissonant.
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25-01-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 04:29 PM)Fireball Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 03:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I agree. It seems mighty strange that someone would call oneself xtian if they don't acknowledge the existence/godhood of the putative Jesus. But then, it's all BS, anyway, and if people want to play semantic games they can do that. Smells funny to me, is all. Seems a bit dissonant.

Given that there are estimated to be like 33,000 different donminations I think "dissonant" is a bit of an understatement. "Discordant" seems more appropriate.

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