"Christian Atheists"
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25-01-2016, 04:37 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 01:36 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But, doesn't the definition of Christianity make it mutually exclusive from atheism (by definition)?

There are 33,000 sects of Christianity. I submit there is no "definition".
Were the apostles "Christians" (before any definitions even evolved and they were all still keeping the Jewish law) ? try telling a "Christian" the apostles were not Christians. Angel

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-01-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 04:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 01:36 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But, doesn't the definition of Christianity make it mutually exclusive from atheism (by definition)?

There are 33,000 sects of Christianity. I submit there is no "definition".

Ha! I beat Fullerene by 2 minutes. My work here is done. Big Grin

#sigh
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25-01-2016, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 05:19 PM by Chas.)
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 02:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:23 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I don't mean to get too "no true scotsman"-ish, but it seems fairly widely accepted that to be a Christian involves believing in a deity (THE deity).

Really? There are many many different interpretations of Christianity. Jehova Witnesses "have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine." and there is no afterlife until the Armageddon and then only 144,000 will enter into heaven which ironically is located on Earth. The rest just simply cease to exist. There is no Hell. Only the abyss. Universal reconciliationists beleive that Jesus died for all of humanity's sins en toto regardless of how we behave or act. The Mormons do not accept the Trinity and replace it with polytheism and believe we are all gods in training and this is our proving grounds. And so on and on and on. Are these denominations not Christian? Why is the idea of Christian atheism any more bizarre than these?

Because, GM, that is all supernatural crap and a belief in a god. None of them are atheists. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2016, 05:18 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 04:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 03:50 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Given those definitions I would be inclined to argue that Jehova's witnesses aren't followers of Christianity and Mormon's are not followers of Christianity. Depending on the definition of Christianity. If, for instance the definition of Christianity includes following Jesus and believing Jesus is the son of god and is the Messiah, then neither of these qualify under that definition.

I don't recall anyone rejecting Romney as a Christian. The Seventh Day Adventists, like the Jehovah's Witnesses are also annihilationists who don't believe in eternal damnation and judgmentalists relying on works to reconcile with God. I don't hear anyone questioning Carson's Christianity. Trump hasn't even read the Bible and quotes "Second Corinthians 3:17" as "Two Corinthians 3:17" and I don't hear anyone saying he isn't a Christian.

Trump isn't a Christian. He's a Trumpian. Drinking Beverage

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25-01-2016, 05:36 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
The ethics are hardly worth praising in that manner. Satanic Atheists are more likely to get a, okay I get it response from my view of it all.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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25-01-2016, 05:43 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
This is all confusing to me. If I were to claim I was a Christian only in the cultural sense, why would I hold the teachings of Jesus above the teachings of anyone else? Doesn't holding Jesus up to a higher standard than any other mortals imply divinity?
This all seems like just another circle-jerk landing square on the old objective morality arguments.
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25-01-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 01:36 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But, doesn't the definition of Christianity make it mutually exclusive from atheism (by definition)?

A Jewish atheist would be somebody who practices Jewish culture while not believing in a god. I don't quite see it the same because I've always understood that Jewish culture/heritage and Judaism are separate. Do people ever talk about atheistic Judaism? Really, I don't know the answer to that.

Buddhist atheism seems more like a technical term than a position. In that not all forms (or maybe most or all forms?) of Buddhism involve belief in a deity, so technically they are atheist. So one could say I am Buddhist and my beliefs don't involve a deity, so technically I am atheist as well.

But to say one is Christian, how can you tack on, "but also I am atheist"? That's like saying, "I am shorter than 4 feet, but also taller than 4 feet". The two definitions don't mesh. You could say you believe a figure named Jesus existed, and he had a few nice things to say that you believe are true, but you don't believe he was the son of god or that a god exists. But what is Christian about that?

An interesting philosophy. Accept Jesus as a teacher and not as a God. I like it. I could handle it. I once wore a T-SHirt that said "Dear Jesus protect me from your followers." I also once had a book called "Why Jesus taught reincarnation." It only referenced a couple of Bible verses which were very vague, but claimed there was a vast amount of "lost material" where Jesus taught reincarnation. Maybe a book about Jesus the atheist! He taught about being moral and good, and all the shit that he is said to have said about God was just added later to confuse us! Who'll go for it! I would.
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25-01-2016, 05:46 PM (This post was last modified: 25-01-2016 07:29 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 05:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Really? There are many many different interpretations of Christianity. Jehova Witnesses "have learned from the Bible that Jesus is not Almighty God and that there is no Scriptural basis for the Trinity doctrine." and there is no afterlife until the Armageddon and then only 144,000 will enter into heaven which ironically is located on Earth. The rest just simply cease to exist. There is no Hell. Only the abyss. Universal reconciliationists beleive that Jesus died for all of humanity's sins en toto regardless of how we behave or act. The Mormons do not accept the Trinity and replace it with polytheism and believe we are all gods in training and this is our proving grounds. And so on and on and on. Are these denominations not Christian? Why is the idea of Christian atheism any more bizarre than these?

Because, GM, that is all supernatural crap and a belief in a god. None of them are atheists. Facepalm

"While not being opposed to the Christian Bible or Church doctrine, Jesuism does not affirm their authority over the teachings of Jesus. As a philosophy, Owen Flanagan characterized Jesuism as naturalistic and rationalist, rejecting the conflict between faith and science. Though not specifically associated with Jesusism, the red letter Bibles are one method of studying the teachings of Jesus. Another is the Jefferson Bible."


I see no problem with reconciling religion with naturalism and rationalism or faith and science. Spinoza did it. And science is not free of faith. "Induction is the glory of science and the scandal of philosophy". - C.D Broad. On what basis can we justify induction other than "Well, pragmatically speaking, it seems to hold up so far as we can tell so far." That's a fine answer. But it also assumes a degree of faith founded only in empiricism not principle. Not in gods, but in us and our methods of inquiry. .... same thing, I guess.

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25-01-2016, 10:11 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 03:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 02:56 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I reiterate my earlier question to you regarding Christ's teachings. The bible describes Christ as a person who advocated eternal, ultimate suffering for earthly, minor transgressions. Do you agree with those teachings?

Nope. My interpretation of "And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matthew 3:2 KJV) is not that it is imminent but rather that it is immediate. This is both heaven and hell and you get to choose which. As for any eternal punishment well that would require a postmortem preservation of identity and that is simply complete and utter bullshit. Dualism is untenable.

You are making up your own belief system.
You are choosing the statements attributed to jesus that you like and interpreting them the way you like.

Now, don't get me wrong, if that's how you want to do it, that's fine. Your call, your life, none of my business.

However you can't call it christianity, and calling it christian atheism is just misleading.

So make up your own name for your own belief system. Give credit to jesus or whomever. You do a disservice to yourself and others by using misleading terms.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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25-01-2016, 10:38 PM
RE: "Christian Atheists"
(25-01-2016 05:46 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(25-01-2016 05:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because, GM, that is all supernatural crap and a belief in a god. None of them are atheists. Facepalm

"While not being opposed to the Christian Bible or Church doctrine, Jesuism does not affirm their authority over the teachings of Jesus. As a philosophy, Owen Flanagan characterized Jesuism as naturalistic and rationalist, rejecting the conflict between faith and science. Though not specifically associated with Jesusism, the red letter Bibles are one method of studying the teachings of Jesus. Another is the Jefferson Bible."


I see no problem with reconciling religion with naturalism and rationalism or faith and science. Spinoza did it. And science is not free of faith. "Induction is the glory of science and the scandal of philosophy". - C.D Broad. On what basis can we justify induction other than "Well, pragmatically speaking, it seems to hold up so far as we can tell so far." That's a fine answer. But it also assumes a degree of faith founded only in empiricism not principle. Not in gods, but in us and our methods of inquiry. .... same thing, I guess.

There is no philosophical problem with induction in mathematics.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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