Christian Doctors
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11-11-2012, 01:20 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
(11-11-2012 12:25 PM)amyb Wrote:  Nobody's suggesting the religious can't talk about their religion (and certainly no one is saying cultural diversity is terrible and should be eliminated), only that their religion doesn't necessarily apply to every patient, and that, in some contexts, it may be unprofessional of them to talk about it at length.

So no, I don't think it's that atheists are wound up with any sort of hatred. They just want doctors to do medical stuff without talking about superstition. That's why hospitals have clergy available, to talk about religion and whether or not stuff is God's will or whatever.

Also, merely mentioning God or using a figure of speech invoking God is much different than going on at length about religion or preaching to the patient or their family. That's where it gets uncomfortable, I'd say.

For example, when a doctor told me I was wrong to "have sex out of wedlock" because God didn't intend that, I found that offensive because I'm not a Christian and I didn't think it was his place, as a medical doctor, to judge the morality of my sexual behaviour (and I wasn't even there for anything related, I was there for asthma or something).
But doesn't your asthma flare up during sex? Mine does.

Or at least, that's what I can remember... Dodgy

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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11-11-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
Everyone there came from the 1400s, I think. That's why their practice didn't last very long.
(11-11-2012 01:20 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  But doesn't your asthma flare up during sex? Mine does.

Or at least, that's what I can remember... Dodgy
I can't recall. But if it does, I think it'd do so whether I was married or not.
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11-11-2012, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 02:05 PM by Misanthropik.)
RE: Christian Doctors
(11-11-2012 08:42 AM)Ghost Wrote:  If you're so wound up with Anti-Theistic hate that the mere mention of God in any setting makes you want to explode, that's your issue and honestly, it aint healthy.

You're completely missing the point.

The mere mention of God in any setting is not what makes me want to explode. It's a doctor who encourages his patients to make medical decisions based on faith. He was entirely out of line. He's there to set up IV drips, read the heart monitor and make medical decisions accordingly. He's not there to tell us that whatever happens is God's will and should be viewed as such. People make stupid, stupid medical decisions based on their faith. And he's encouraging this.

No, it's not petty for me to be a bit upset. Anti-theist or not; it's not simply "my issue". There's an entire family hanging in the balance here.

You seem to be a pretty nice guy - from what I've seen on the forums - but think before you speak. K?

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11-11-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
(11-11-2012 01:27 PM)amyb Wrote:  Everyone there came from the 1400s, I think. That's why their practice didn't last very long.
(11-11-2012 01:20 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  But doesn't your asthma flare up during sex? Mine does.

Or at least, that's what I can remember... Dodgy
I can't recall. But if it does, I think it'd do so whether I was married or not.
No, no, no, when you have legitimate sex your body shuts down the asthma response. Yes

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11-11-2012, 10:35 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
Hey, Chas.

Quote:There is no evidence of that...

I respect you as well as your right to your opinion. You know I do, brother. That being said, I call utter bullshit. Read anything by Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins or Wade Davis. Read about punctuated equilibrium. Read anything about systems theory. Read anything about anything that remotely relates to this subject. There is so much evidence in support of my position that I honestly don't understand how you can say that there is no evidence.

I am REALLY interested to hear more about the evidence against it that you suggest exists. If that sounds snippy, I'm falling asleep. I honestly can't even imagine what you're referring to.

And for the record, this is a digression from the OP.

Misanthrope.

Quote:You seem to be a pretty nice guy - from what I've seen on the forums - but think before you speak. K?

Don't speak to me like that. I don't accept being dismissed. That is what you are doing, deliberately or no, by telling me to think before I speak and linking that to my qualities as a human being. It's not cool.

Hey, amyb.

Quote:Nobody's suggesting the religious can't talk about their religion...

"Nobody" is too strong a term Cool

Quote:...only that their religion doesn't necessarily apply to every patient, and
that, in some contexts, it may be unprofessional of them to talk about
it at length.

I concur.

Quote:They just want doctors to do medical stuff without talking about
superstition. That's why hospitals have clergy available, to talk about
religion and whether or not stuff is God's will or whatever.

All I'm saying is that this is too "don't ask, don't tell," for my taste. I disagree with anything, be it cultural norm or straight up legislation, that forces people to deny themselves publicly. I'm with you on the don't impose it tip, but everyone should have the right to say, "This is who I am and this is what I think." When all is said and done, that's what free speech is there to protect. No one should fear reprisals for speaking their mind.

Quote:For example, when a doctor told me I was wrong to "have sex out of
wedlock" because God didn't intend that, I found that offensive because
I'm not a Christian and I didn't think it was his place, as a medical
doctor, to judge the morality of my sexual behaviour (and I wasn't even
there for anything related, I was there for asthma or something).

I concur.

The imposition of a cultural norm on someone from another culture is shitty in my opinion. This is exactly what I was talking about when I spoke of cultural sensitivity as a skill set for medical professionals. For example, Bob Marley, a Rastafarian, had cancer in his toe and refused to be operated on for his religious beliefs; a decision that led directly to the cancer spreading to other parts of his body and killing him. No doctor has the right to judge him for his decision. They can express concern and their medical opinion, even make a personal appeal, but they can't condemn the man. I mean, if this doctor of yours has a thing for no sex before marriage, so be it. He could say he doesn't agree with it or that there are dangers that he is concerned about, but straight up telling you that you're wrong? That's some bullshit right there.

I spent a few years living in Toronto and my GP's clinic was in the gay village. Inside the clinic there were free condoms and posters that were part of an awareness campaign to promote safe sex in the gay community. If you were a homophobic doctor in that clinic, you were in a pretty tight spot. I think that a doctor in that clinic has the right to say that he doesn't agree with the homosexual lifestyle or that he thinks that heterosexual marriage is important, but he wouldn't have the right to condemn members of the gay community for being who they are. Also, what that clinic displayed was a non-judgmental culturally sensitive approach, if you understand my meaning. I think that's important. I think that the comparison I'm trying to draw is that if you're a Christian doctor in an Atheist community, you need to be sensitive to the needs of THAT community. Again, for me it all comes back to cultural sensitivity training/experience. But what you don't need is to pretend that you're not a Christian.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 01:28 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
"Don't speak to me like that. I don't accept being dismissed. That is what you are doing, deliberately or no, by telling me to think before I speak and linking that to my qualities as a human being. It's not cool."

Get over it. You said something stupid and I dismissed it as such.

You are nothing more than an icon with words attached who is posting in MY thread. I'll speak to you in any manner I see fit Thumbsup

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12-11-2012, 01:39 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
Misanthropik.

Then I'll have nothing further to do with you.
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12-11-2012, 02:14 AM (This post was last modified: 12-11-2012 02:17 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Christian Doctors
(11-11-2012 10:35 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Misanthrope.

Quote:You seem to be a pretty nice guy - from what I've seen on the forums - but think before you speak. K?

Don't speak to me like that. I don't accept being dismissed. That is what you are doing, deliberately or no, by telling me to think before I speak and linking that to my qualities as a human being. It's not cool.

I like you Ghost, but now I feel like dismissing you as a fool. I'm with the misanthrope here. I'll speak to you any way I fucking please. Feel free to reciprocate.

(12-11-2012 01:39 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Misanthropik.

Then I'll have nothing further to do with you.

Meh ... whatever.

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12-11-2012, 07:57 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
Et tu, Girlyman Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
(11-11-2012 10:35 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Quote:There is no evidence of that...

I respect you as well as your right to your opinion. You know I do, brother. That being said, I call utter bullshit. Read anything by Charles Darwin, Richard Dawkins or Wade Davis. Read about punctuated equilibrium. Read anything about systems theory. Read anything about anything that remotely relates to this subject. There is so much evidence in support of my position that I honestly don't understand how you can say that there is no evidence.

I am REALLY interested to hear more about the evidence against it that you suggest exists. If that sounds snippy, I'm falling asleep. I honestly can't even imagine what you're referring to.

And for the record, this is a digression from the OP.

I will credit your mis-reading my response to your sleepiness. I wasn't talking about biological diversity.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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