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12-11-2012, 08:17 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
Hey, Chas.

Neither was I. But the rules function exactly the same. I'm curious about what evidence you have to support the notion that things like monoculture, cultural imperialism, cultural extinction and cultural genocide are beneficial to the ethnosphere. I can't imagine what the evidence would look like; however, there are reams of evidence that show that in an evolving system like the ethnosphere, diversity is an exceptionally important factor in system health. Just like biodiversity means a healthy and robust biosphere, cultural diversity means a healthy and robust ethnosphere.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
(12-11-2012 08:17 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Neither was I. But the rules function exactly the same. I'm curious about what evidence you have to support the notion that things like monoculture, cultural imperialism, cultural extinction and cultural genocide are beneficial to the ethnosphere. I can't imagine what the evidence would look like; however, there are reams of evidence that show that in an evolving system like the ethnosphere, diversity is an exceptionally important factor in system health. Just like biodiversity means a healthy and robust biosphere, cultural diversity means a healthy and robust ethnosphere.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
I mentioned none of those actions, why do you insist on reading them in? Ethnic and cultural diversity has led to countless horrors. Can cultural diversity be interesting? Amusing? Instructive? Sure. Does that therefore mandate that we protect it it? No. Maybe the correct path is to let cultures mix and become the best elements of all. There will always be new ideas and there will always be change.

The analogy between biodiversity and ethnic diversity is just that, an analogy. You provide no justification that the analogy is a good one.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 10:24 AM
RE: Christian Doctors
(12-11-2012 08:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-11-2012 08:17 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Neither was I. But the rules function exactly the same. I'm curious about what evidence you have to support the notion that things like monoculture, cultural imperialism, cultural extinction and cultural genocide are beneficial to the ethnosphere. I can't imagine what the evidence would look like; however, there are reams of evidence that show that in an evolving system like the ethnosphere, diversity is an exceptionally important factor in system health. Just like biodiversity means a healthy and robust biosphere, cultural diversity means a healthy and robust ethnosphere.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
I mentioned none of those actions, why do you insist on reading them in? Ethnic and cultural diversity has led to countless horrors. Can cultural diversity be interesting? Amusing? Instructive? Sure. Does that therefore mandate that we protect it it? No. Maybe the correct path is to let cultures mix and become the best elements of all. There will always be new ideas and there will always be change.

The analogy between biodiversity and ethnic diversity is just that, an analogy. You provide no justification that the analogy is a good one.
Let's hear it for cultural diversity . Hurrah.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 05:27 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
Hey, Chas.

Quote:Ethnic and cultural diversity has led to countless horrors.

The argument, cultural diversity is bad because sometimes bad things happen, is a non-argument. Do you have any evidence that a single global monoculture would solve all of those problems? Because we know that a single monolithic culture is repressive first and foremost, and the cost of its collapse is devastating because there are no other alternatives to fill the vacuum.

Quote:Can cultural diversity be interesting? Amusing? Instructive? Sure. Does that therefore mandate that we protect it it? No.

I can't even penetrate this frame. If you want to know about the importance of cultural diversity and the impact of a decrease in diversity, read The Wayfinders by Wade Davis (the antropologist in residence at National Geographic). If you want to understand the importance of diversity during a system collapse, read Eldredge and Gould's work on punctuated equilibrium. It's a simple mechanical question that applies to all Darwinist systems, diversity makes the system robust, homogeneity makes it fragile.

Quote:Maybe the correct path is to let cultures mix and become the best elements of all.

The most important response is that this will never happen because that's not how cultures function. They evolve, they are not designed. Cultures never include what they should include, they include only that which has proven adaptive. Adaptive is not a synonym for best. So there is no way to create a culture with the best traits of all cultures. That sort of cultural chimaera is just as improbable as creating some sort of biological super-organism that has all of the best traits of every species on earth.

I'm curious. Do you have any evidence that suggests that it's even a good idea to try? Because once you do it, you cannot undo it.

Quote:The analogy between biodiversity and ethnic diversity is just that, an analogy.

Because you say so?

If you want to deny Universal Darwinism, be my guest. But I can't argue against he outright dismissal of a well supported theory.

Quote:You provide no justification that the analogy is a good one.

How many theorists do I have to point you towards before I achieve this justification? Because I've already supplied several.

Quote:Let's hear it for cultural diversity . Hurrah.

Here's the problem with this argument. It's an emotional plea. Of course everyone in North America who reads this is gonna be disgusted. Because we view it through the lens of our cultural bias. Also, a trap is laid, where you've re-framed it so that if I say I champion cultural diversity, I champion 9 year old brides. That's ludicrous. It's like suggesting that because I support biodiversity, I want people to get ebola and die.

The implied argument here is that things would be solved if there was one culture. Because it would be the right one. Show me one culture that works for everyone in the world. Show me one culture that works for everyone within the culture. If every plant was wheat and every animal not human was a cow and the only economy was run by a single corporation and every human was the member of a single culture, we would be in such a grotesquely perilous position that it'd be a miracle if the human race survived.

This has become a huge digression now. I've made my point clear that diversity is important. If you wish to challenge or dismiss that idea or anything else that I've written in this post, be my guest. I won't respond (well I'll try anyway). That is to say, you can have the last word if you like. If you'd like to continue the conversation then I invite you to start a new thread.

It's always a pleasure speaking with you, brother. Real talk.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-11-2012, 05:44 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
(12-11-2012 05:27 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Chas.

Quote:Ethnic and cultural diversity has led to countless horrors.

The argument, cultural diversity is bad because sometimes bad things happen, is a non-argument. Do you have any evidence that a single global monoculture would solve all of those problems? Because we know that a single monolithic culture is repressive first and foremost, and the cost of its collapse is devastating because there are no other alternatives to fill the vacuum.

Quote:Can cultural diversity be interesting? Amusing? Instructive? Sure. Does that therefore mandate that we protect it it? No.

I can't even penetrate this frame. If you want to know about the importance of cultural diversity and the impact of a decrease in diversity, read The Wayfinders by Wade Davis (the antropologist in residence at National Geographic). If you want to understand the importance of diversity during a system collapse, read Eldredge and Gould's work on punctuated equilibrium. It's a simple mechanical question that applies to all Darwinist systems, diversity makes the system robust, homogeneity makes it fragile.

Quote:Maybe the correct path is to let cultures mix and become the best elements of all.

The most important response is that this will never happen because that's not how cultures function. They evolve, they are not designed. Cultures never include what they should include, they include only that which has proven adaptive. Adaptive is not a synonym for best. So there is no way to create a culture with the best traits of all cultures. That sort of cultural chimaera is just as improbable as creating some sort of biological super-organism that has all of the best traits of every species on earth.

I'm curious. Do you have any evidence that suggests that it's even a good idea to try? Because once you do it, you cannot undo it.

Quote:The analogy between biodiversity and ethnic diversity is just that, an analogy.

Because you say so?

If you want to deny Universal Darwinism, be my guest. But I can't argue against he outright dismissal of a well supported theory.

Quote:You provide no justification that the analogy is a good one.

How many theorists do I have to point you towards before I achieve this justification? Because I've already supplied several.

Quote:Let's hear it for cultural diversity . Hurrah.

Here's the problem with this argument. It's an emotional plea. Of course everyone in North America who reads this is gonna be disgusted. Because we view it through the lens of our cultural bias. Also, a trap is laid, where you've re-framed it so that if I say I champion cultural diversity, I champion 9 year old brides. That's ludicrous. It's like suggesting that because I support biodiversity, I want people to get ebola and die.

The implied argument here is that things would be solved if there was one culture. Because it would be the right one. Show me one culture that works for everyone in the world. Show me one culture that works for everyone within the culture. If every plant was wheat and every animal not human was a cow and the only economy was run by a single corporation and every human was the member of a single culture, we would be in such a grotesquely perilous position that it'd be a miracle if the human race survived.

This has become a huge digression now. I've made my point clear that diversity is important. If you wish to challenge or dismiss that idea or anything else that I've written in this post, be my guest. I won't respond (well I'll try anyway). That is to say, you can have the last word if you like. If you'd like to continue the conversation then I invite you to start a new thread.

It's always a pleasure speaking with you, brother. Real talk.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
I was only pointing out that you said, without any evidence, that ethno-diversity is good, that biodiversity is a good analogy, again without evidence.

I was not suggesting we create a monoculture by selecting from cultures, I was, in fact, supporting a cultural evolutionary idea of a cultures mixing.

I do not support the idea of protecting cultures - let them live or die on merit. That is the true thrust of universal Darwinism.

There is no justification for perpetuating horrific cultural practices. I reject your absolute relativism. Cultural practices that harm people are not worthy of respect and should be stamped out.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-11-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: Christian Doctors
(12-11-2012 01:39 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Misanthropik.

Then I'll have nothing further to do with you.
lol. I'll just have to find some way to accept that.

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