Christian Doctrine
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17-12-2016, 05:46 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  Chew toy seems to have gapped it Sad

*poof*

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17-12-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm serious RS. That quote of yours expresses very beautifully a feeling that I have also shared, that the Christians have lost their way utterly. With your permission I would like to make it into a quote card with attribution and share it over FB, over everywhere. Fuck. I love you OP. You managed to get RS to make a golden post here, the kind that only comes once in a little while.
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17-12-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:01 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(17-12-2016 04:57 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Most probably they originate in the Oort clud, we are not sure (yet). Your point is?

There is not oort cloud. Purely hypothetical.

For something hypothetical you are shockingly certain of its non-existance.

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17-12-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:48 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(17-12-2016 05:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm serious RS. That quote of yours expresses very beautifully a feeling that I have also shared, that the Christians have lost their way utterly. With your permission I would like to make it into a quote card with attribution and share it over FB, over everywhere. Fuck. I love you OP. You managed to get RS to make a golden post here, the kind that only comes once in a little while.
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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-12-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Also lol @ evangelical protestant

Oh RS... that made me laugh.

Well, I didn't honestly know what denomination you now claim, so I put your "background" belief system, which is all I know until you choose to share with me what direction your faith is going. That is, of course, your business and none of mine... I simply do not know and did not want to presume anything without knowledge.

For any offense I gave unintentionally, I apologize. And I'm glad I made you laugh. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-12-2016, 05:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(17-12-2016 05:01 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  There is not oort cloud. Purely hypothetical.

For something hypothetical you are shockingly certain of its non-existance.

It's a trap. Now he'll try to pretend that God is the same as the Oort cloud. Something which we must maintain reasonably could possibly exist.

Difference is, OP, that the Oort cloud is a. falsifiable - the hypothesis is capable of being proven wrong. b. the hypothesis was introduced to explain specific phenomena. It's not some catch all "we'll call it the Oort cloud 'cos we don't know how to explain it" deus ex machina explanation.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-12-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 04:42 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  You forgot to ask if God can make a rock so big that He can't lift it.

That question only looks ridiculous because of the way that you've framed it. Look at it another way and it's vitally important.

Is your God limitted by the rules of logic? Can He commit paradox?

No matter how you answer it's going to cause problems.

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17-12-2016, 06:01 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(17-12-2016 05:50 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  For something hypothetical you are shockingly certain of its non-existance.

It's a trap. Now he'll try to pretend that God is the same as the Oort cloud. Something which we must maintain reasonably could possibly exist.

Difference is, OP, that the Oort cloud is a. falsifiable - the hypothesis is capable of being proven wrong. b. the hypothesis was introduced to explain specific phenomena. It's not some catch all "we'll call it the Oort cloud 'cos we don't know how to explain it" deus ex machina explanation.

I should bloody well hope so given how hard I was jumping up and down on the trigger plate. Facepalm

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17-12-2016, 06:04 PM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2016 06:09 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 05:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm serious RS. That quote of yours expresses very beautifully a feeling that I have also shared, that the Christians have lost their way utterly. With your permission I would like to make it into a quote card with attribution and share it over FB, over everywhere. Fuck. I love you OP. You managed to get RS to make a golden post here, the kind that only comes once in a little while.

I recently shared a similar sentiment with a Christian friend, and he keeps promising he'll get back to me on his thoughts.

I argued that Humanists and Christians (and the Jewish community, especially the Reform types) (and Muslims), if they [the Christians] were actually serious about trying to obey the words of the man they claim as savior, have far more in common than atheists of the more liberal minded/leftist than we have with the right-wing, "Ayn Rand had some pretty good ideas" (or as I call them, "Neitzchean") type atheists.

I argued, in that case, that pro-Choice and pro-Life really should share the objective of figuring out what, exactly, makes a (legally protected) decision to abort more/less likely, and then take active steps to try to minimize (and ideally end) abortion. We know that it is more likely if the person is financially unstable, for instance, especially if very poor... or bankrupt because of illness under our private, for-profit medical system, for instance. Birth control's ready availability and accurate teaching of sex-ed with emphasis on proper condom use (and their availability outside of parental judgment) also reduces rates significantly. So if their real objective was to end abortions, rather than curtail the rights of women to practice something with which they do not themselves agree on religious grounds, they would be trying to help fund the other elements of Planned Parenthood. Doing whatever it took to end poverty in the United States and providing comprehensive sex education and birth control means would go a long way toward ensuring that abortion was extraordinarily rare, and primarily practiced in case of medical emergency or sexual assault.

Instead, they're standing in front of abortion clinics, screaming at women going in... women who could be going in because their uncle raped them. Or because they would be disowned by their families if they did not abort. Or any other reason they decide to go in there. Because like it or not, the woman has that right to determine her own bodily integrity and not even another human being's life can intrude on her body. It would undermine a major principle of personal and bodily integrity, a genie nobody would truly want taken out of [edit: that constitutional "magic lamp" of] law if they understood the implications.

I quipped that Christians were not just choosing to die on an untenable hill, "they were on the wrong hill!"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-12-2016, 06:17 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 04:11 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Big Bang Theory. What went bang?

Ignoring the strawman phrasing... we don't know what was there before the big bang or even if "before" makes sense. It is the first back we can extrapolate from the available evidence and cosmologists are still working on it. Simply throwing up your hands and saying "must be god" is not an answer, it is a cop-out. I prefer to wait for evidence even if that means I have to admit that I don't know how something came to be.

Quote:The problem with meeting your "evidence for God" request is that you will require a "natural" explanation. Like the magician Amazing Randi will never pay-off because his criteria is "natural." Natural means cannot explain-prove supernatural.

What you are saying is that you believe in magic and magic can explain anything.

Since we have exactly zero things that have been demonstrated to be caused by magic and numerous examples of finding natural explanations for things that were previously not understood I find that an incomprehensible position.

The time to believe in something is when there is evidence to support it. You believe in things for which you have no justification except that it makes you feel good to pretend you have answers. Being uncomfortable about not knowing is normal but deciding to stop seeking answers and simply assume magic doesn't actually get you anything except a security blanket.

(17-12-2016 04:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  You can look this up easily. Mormonism states that Jesus and Lucifer were spirit babies together. They believe that God ahs sex with His wives and makes spirit babies on a distant planet and the good babies are born to Mormons and the bad babies are born to black people.
Grace is not the way to salvation it is a works-based religion.

Way different - do some research and you will see it is not even close.

So it isn't even close... so what? That would only matter if you could show that you are right and they are wrong. As it stands, they can look at what you say and say "see, it is not even close" with equal conviction (high) and justification (zero).

You believe you are right. The Mormons believe that they are right. The Jews believe that they are right. Ditto Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc... how do we determine who, if anybody, actually is right? Every group has books and traditions and eyewitness reports and they all conflict.

It makes far more sense to conclude that they are all the result of uneasy humans trying to explain a complicated, inexplicable, and often terrifying world.

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