Christian Doctrine
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18-12-2016, 03:28 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:03 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  So since we're all here, and terribly busy, perhaps you can try out one of these importantish questions.

Can god make a rock so big that he can't lift it?

More meaningfully, is your deity bound by logic or can it commit paradox? What are the bounds on omnipotence?

I don't think anyone can make a square circle or a married bachelor even God.
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18-12-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:07 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 02:55 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I just heard that some astronomers say there was some evidence for it. I did not really look into it.

Please for the love of God use google. Literally all you have to do is a little googling to find these astronomers. You can't cite this as evidence for anything if all you've got is hearsay. I've heard that the Quran contains evidence that ancient Arabs knew about the atomic theory of matter (some Muslim people do make this claim actually). Hearsay is worthless as evidence of anything.

I did not cite it as evidence. It was a random comment.
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18-12-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:30 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 03:07 PM)morondog Wrote:  Please for the love of God use google. Literally all you have to do is a little googling to find these astronomers. You can't cite this as evidence for anything if all you've got is hearsay. I've heard that the Quran contains evidence that ancient Arabs knew about the atomic theory of matter (some Muslim people do make this claim actually). Hearsay is worthless as evidence of anything.

I did not cite it as evidence. It was a random comment.

Facepalm Just... Facepalm Come on man. OK so you didn't cite it as evidence. What was the point? To make me google for you? It shows the wishy-washy nature of your thought process. You "hear" something and don't even fact-check it for *yourself*, and then you expect people to take you seriously.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-12-2016, 03:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:28 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 03:03 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  So since we're all here, and terribly busy, perhaps you can try out one of these importantish questions.

Can god make a rock so big that he can't lift it?

More meaningfully, is your deity bound by logic or can it commit paradox? What are the bounds on omnipotence?

I don't think anyone can make a square circle or a married bachelor even God.

So how do you reconcile that with variable perfection?

God is widely viewed as being perfect. The problem with that is that perfection is immutable. The only possible change is to become imperfect. This leads to a static deity, incapable of thought, action or even perception.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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18-12-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
Blitzy, please don't forget:

I want to know how you know that your religion is true, given that other religions also claim truth and can also cite holy books, miracles, prophets and so on as their evidence?

I am not joking, if you can answer this question properly, not with "I just know" then I and many others on this board will instantly convert. The catch is that "properly" - it means that you will have to satisfy my, not your, burden of proof.

ETA: Although it would be interesting to see your thought process as well. So even if it's *your* reasons for belief, I would like to know them. Do you dare to expose them to the harsh light of peer review?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-12-2016, 04:04 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:46 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 03:30 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I did not cite it as evidence. It was a random comment.

Facepalm Just... Facepalm Come on man. OK so you didn't cite it as evidence. What was the point? To make me google for you? It shows the wishy-washy nature of your thought process. You "hear" something and don't even fact-check it for *yourself*, and then you expect people to take you seriously.

Do you have to label my thinking wishy-washy due to some random comment? Why can't I have a conversation with you without having everything I write given the third degree. I am having a conversation with you guys. Lighten up a little bit. I don't need you to fact check for me. I don't need you to google anything for me.

You guy automatically assign some nefarious intent on my part. Paranoid much?
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18-12-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 03:54 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 03:28 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I don't think anyone can make a square circle or a married bachelor even God.

So how do you reconcile that with variable perfection?

God is widely viewed as being perfect. The problem with that is that perfection is immutable. The only possible change is to become imperfect. This leads to a static deity, incapable of thought, action or even perception.

I think because God is outside of our universe and we are inside the universe the universe He created does not allow a squared circle. If He did He would be breaking His own rules.
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18-12-2016, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2016 04:13 PM by Bzltyr.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 04:00 PM)morondog Wrote:  Blitzy, please don't forget:

I want to know how you know that your religion is true, given that other religions also claim truth and can also cite holy books, miracles, prophets and so on as their evidence?

I am not joking, if you can answer this question properly, not with "I just know" then I and many others on this board will instantly convert. The catch is that "properly" - it means that you will have to satisfy my, not your, burden of proof.

ETA: Although it would be interesting to see your thought process as well. So even if it's *your* reasons for belief, I would like to know them. Do you dare to expose them to the harsh light of peer review?

First, what is the "ETA" at the beginning of your last paragraph?
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18-12-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 04:00 PM)morondog Wrote:  Blitzy, please don't forget:

I want to know how you know that your religion is true, given that other religions also claim truth and can also cite holy books, miracles, prophets and so on as their evidence?

I have studied the Bible. I have gone through the prophecies concerning the Messiah and others and found them to be accurate. Each of those prophecies has been "debunked" by atheist but I do not find their conclusions valid or compelling. Many of the claims of the Bible have been accurate. Jesus died on the cross. I believe there is evidence or that. Jesus was resurrected. I believe there is evidence for that.
Quote:I am not joking, if you can answer this question properly, not with "I just know" then I and many others on this board will instantly convert. The catch is that "properly" - it means that you will have to satisfy my, not your, burden of proof.

Properly would take a bit of time. I will work on it honestly and get back to you. I am hopeful you will review it honestly as you have stated.
Quote:ETA: Although it would be interesting to see your thought process as well. So even if it's *your* reasons for belief, I would like to know them. Do you dare to expose them to the harsh light of peer review?
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18-12-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(18-12-2016 04:07 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(18-12-2016 04:00 PM)morondog Wrote:  Blitzy, please don't forget:

I want to know how you know that your religion is true, given that other religions also claim truth and can also cite holy books, miracles, prophets and so on as their evidence?

I am not joking, if you can answer this question properly, not with "I just know" then I and many others on this board will instantly convert. The catch is that "properly" - it means that you will have to satisfy my, not your, burden of proof.

ETA: Although it would be interesting to see your thought process as well. So even if it's *your* reasons for belief, I would like to know them. Do you dare to expose them to the harsh light of peer review?

First, what is the "ETA" at the beginning of your last paragraph?

Edited to add.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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