Christian Doctrine
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20-12-2016, 01:21 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:10 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 12:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  Um. I am answering you honestly. You are trying to convince me, which as far as I'm concerned means you've declared "Duck shooting season is now open! By the way, I am a duck." But I am genuinely interested in what you have to say. I do consider though, that anyone who takes part in evangelism should be well aware that they may receive some counters that may shake them up themselves.

Thanks for the warning. " Better men than you..."

You believe that a literal human being was swallowed by a big fish and sicked up three days later alive?

You still believe that the Earth did stand still, even though there's good reason not to? (Space Midianites)

You believe that the Bible is the Word of God despite that you have a printed edition, which you know was typeset by humans, and you know that the content was derived from books written by humans, and you do not know the provenance of those books?

NONE of these things bother you?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2016, 01:23 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:18 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:02 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Others already addressed most of your post, but I wanted to add this:

Yes... (Genesis 1:11-12, Genesis 1:26-27)
And no... (Genesis 2:4-9)

(Somewhere else you also claimed the bible doesn't contain contradictions.)

Gen 2 is the Garden of Eden.
Your citations of Gen 1 are vague. Post them and evaluate them.

Gen 2 is Earth
I posted the links. Try clicking.

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20-12-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Come on. I am not trying to make science fit with it.

I agree that you aren't trying to make science fit the bible. You are trying to make the bible fit science.

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20-12-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:18 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:04 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  morondog wrote: I am quite happy that it is settled in your mind, but you are attempting to convince me of the truth of it So the specific question that I have really is:
if the primary reason for belief is the Bible, why should I believe the Bible?

I am telling you. First: the creation account in the Bible agrees with the natural account. Because the two concur that gives credibility. Just a piece of evidence for trusting the Bible.

No, they "agree" if you really stretch. I don't find that they agree at all.

Is it a stretch that the Bible said the universe is expanding - stretching?
Is it a stretch that the Bible says it was created from nothing. The BBT screams that there was nothing?
Is it a stretch that the early Earth was covered by a thick atmosphere so the Sun's light could not get through?
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20-12-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:17 PM)morondog Wrote:  What was it meant to be? And why if it wasn't are you trying to make science fit with it?

Come on. I am not trying to make science fit with it.
Science, in my humble opinion and what it started out to be, was a way to understand God.
The better the science the more it proves God.

The Bible is a way for us to know God.

Facepalm You have literally just written your verses that "fit" the Bible to the Big Bang Theory. Do you want to show us charm quarks? Which verses are those mentioned in? You know that the Muslims do this too right?

The measure of science is not how well it proves God but whether predictions from theory match results from experiments. Whether it *works*.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:24 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:18 PM)morondog Wrote:  No, they "agree" if you really stretch. I don't find that they agree at all.

Is it a stretch that the Bible said the universe is expanding - stretching?
Is it a stretch that the Bible says it was created from nothing. The BBT screams that there was nothing?
Is it a stretch that the early Earth was covered by a thick atmosphere so the Sun's light could not get through?

The verses are vague. You could interpret them to mean anything. You chose those verses because they appear to support the theory. I bet elsewhere you could find verses about clear skies and rainbows, and if some theory came along that said that was what early earth was like you'd find a way to shoehorn those in.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:24 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Is it a stretch that the Bible said the universe is expanding - stretching?

Based on what you posted it is a considerable stretch.

Quote:Is it a stretch that the Bible says it was created from nothing. The BBT screams that there was nothing?

The big bang theory does not say that there was nothing. It starts with the expansion of spacetime.

Quote:Is it a stretch that the early Earth was covered by a thick atmosphere so the Sun's light could not get through?

Still waiting for a citation that that is the consensus of reputable scientists. It isn't a claim I'm familiar with.

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20-12-2016, 01:33 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
I found this when I was looking at my old stuff.

Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name

These verse discuss Pleides. The SEVEN sisters. Not all seven are visible to the eye.
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20-12-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:33 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I found this when I was looking at my old stuff.

Job 9:9 Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name

These verse discuss Pleides. The SEVEN sisters. Not all seven are visible to the eye.

There are not just seven. It is IIRC a globular cluster satellite galaxy of the milky way and there are at least thousands of stars contained therein. Multiple cultures have pleiades myths concerning the *seven* sisters and why the seventh one dimmed her light. That's why we call them the seven sisters. Because of the Greek myth passed down to us and translated into English.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
By the way the verses you quoted provide us with a perfect example of what I asked earlier, please tell me what are the bands of Orion referred to in the verses?

Will you:
  • accept that the Hebrews had no idea what they were talking about
  • choose to believe that they did and there are some kind of "bands of Orion" objects somewhere that can be "loosed".

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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