Christian Doctrine
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20-12-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:33 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  These verse discuss Pleides. The SEVEN sisters. Not all seven are visible to the eye.

Bullshit
https://www.naic.edu/~gibson/pleiades/

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20-12-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 12:49 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Show us a case in which
1) the bible was interpreted first
2) a very specific and falsifiable prediction was made based on that interpretation
3) and later science discovered this very fact

Heb 11:3
By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.
Created from nothing.
Job 9:8
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Jer 10:12
He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
Isa 45:12
I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Universe expanding

Thats exactly what i am talking about. Weeping
Do you know what "specifically" means? I am serious. Do you know it or not? How precise are those verses in your opinion? What does "heavens" refer to?
Do you know what falisifiability is?
You dont know what a scientifially falsifiable prediction is, do you?

Quote:By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God's command, that what we now see did not come from anything that can be seen.
Created from nothing.
Is it me or did i miss the "expansion" part? Oh, and by faith we understand nothing. Do you think faith is a path to understanding the true nature of the universe?
What if tomorrow science finds out that we live in a multiverse?
What if tomorrow science discovers that the universe was created from something? Will you adjust your belief accordingly? Or will you adjust the interpretation of the bible?

Wasnt it you that questioned the BBT and that the universe cant come from nothing? To me these to quotes clearly indicate you arent in favour of the BBT. Yet you are quoting verses now that are supposed to support the scientific BBT? Sorry, but i have to call dishonest again.
(18-12-2016 01:54 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  the Big Bang Theory became a topic. The BBT is coming under scrutiny
(17-12-2016 04:11 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Big Bang Theory. What went bang?
What do you believe, just for further reference?: Was there a big bang? Is there one universe or multiverses. Was this universe created from nothing or from something?

Quote:Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
Wait, in Heb it was "universe" now its "heavens". One singular, one plural? What is is one heaven or heavens? One universe or multiverses? What was meant with "heavens"? The universe, precisely? Or was universe referring to "heavens"? This is so confusing, different words (in singular and plural!) for the same thing? Or its maybe different things still? Almost as if the authors didnt know exactly what they were talking about. Do we want to ask Aliza what the original words in hebrew were, and what their meaning was?
Sorry, i see nothing falsifiable in your quote, but the plural of "heavens", and what we know, so far, from science is that there is one universe....so far.
Lets have a look at Job 9:6, Just to see collect more data to see if the writer of Job knew what he was talking about.
Quote:"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble."
Do you think science will find the pillars soon? What are they made of? How do they look like? How many pillars?

Quote:I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
So science has found out that the "heavens" were stretched out by someones hands? Consider
Because thats the only falsifiable part i see in this quote.

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20-12-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:05 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Quote:
The Bible speaks about decay.
Radioactive decay?
Where....specifically?

Not necessarily radioactive decay.

Then why bring it up? See if something sticks?

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20-12-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
Greek mythology calls them the seven sisters.
It is just a curiosity. Not hard fast proof. I am looking a preponderance of the evidence.
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20-12-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:24 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Come on. I am not trying to make science fit with it.

I agree that you aren't trying to make science fit the bible. You are trying to make the bible fit science.

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20-12-2016, 01:52 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:46 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Greek mythology calls them the seven sisters.
It is just a curiosity. Not hard fast proof. I am looking a preponderance of the evidence.

You're doing it again... throwing out something and see if it makes an impression and, if not, backpeddle furiously. Adding up a series of zeros doesn't lead to a preponderance of evidence.

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20-12-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 12:11 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  God created from outside the universe - in other accounts space time energy matter already existed. The Bible's creation account lines up with science.

This "outside of space and time" crap is another sack of nonsense people have cooked up because their god is being pushed into a smaller and smaller corner by the ever expanding human knowledge of the universe. You have nowhere to put your god anymore so now you've all decided he's "outside of space and time". And you have zero proof of this, the bible sure isn't proof, it's a book of claims like every other holy book.

It's funny that the bible claims bats are birds and insects have four legs and the formula for Pi is wrong and the moon makes it's own light but then you claim it has science correct. That's very amusing.

Now go talk to a Muslim, they'll say the same damned things about the Quran, that it has all kinds of science in it and then they proceed to list 100 science facts in the Quran. Hindus say the same thing. My sister in law belongs to a Canadian Native Indian tribe and claims their myths are scientific. It's all a bunch of hogwash, the bible included.

Furthermore, the only explanation for god being able to exist outside of space and time is "because it's god" which is the very definition of special pleading. I could just as easily claim a Magic Rock made the universe and the Magic Rock doesn't require anyone to worship it. It's just a Magic Rock. Prove me wrong.

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20-12-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:21 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-12-2016 01:10 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Thanks for the warning. " Better men than you..."

NONE of these things bother you?

I am trying to make the case why I believe. It is not going to come in one post.
I have been accused of just shutting my eyes to the facts and blindly following an ancient book and basically an idiot who is lead around by the nose - paraphrase.
You asked in a civil manner why I believe. I am making that case. I am going piece by piece.

As far as being bothered. I believe God took nothing and bang the universe began. Keeping a man alive in a fish - piece of cake.

Be patient.
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20-12-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:46 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Greek mythology calls them the seven sisters.
It is just a curiosity. Not hard fast proof. I am looking a preponderance of the evidence.

So far we have a very dubious alleged link to the big bang theory and a further dubious claim that somehow the fact that seven stars are referred to is significant. Both of which require me to interpret the Bible rather differently than the straightforward reading of the text. Apparently this can be explained because the Bible is not supposed to be a scientific text. But I am supposed to take heavily interpreted and chosen verses to confirm that God did in fact convey scientific facts to his uncomprehending audience.

I'm sorry amigo, this is just... not very good. Preponderance of evidence you don't have, so far. I am somewhat... amazed that this is sufficient for you?

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20-12-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(20-12-2016 01:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The better the science the more it proves God.

The Bible is a way for us to know God.

You understand nothing, absolutely nothing about science!
Science is investigating everything natural in this "world". Your god is by definition supernatural, unfalsifiable. Science cannot investigate the unfalsifiable.

God and science have nothing to do with each other, they just cant. But science can investigate the alleged claims of your god (or claims in some books about claims of your god Rolleyes ) about the natural word he "created" for us, and most of these claims have been found to be clearly wrong.

If you have to twist and turn around the bible to make it fit science, you are free to do so, but it doesnt mean that science proves something you forced to fit.

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