Christian Doctrine
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16-12-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 04:02 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I am here telling the truth.

I don't believe you. Not at all.

I believe that you are caught in a dreadful lie, because you were foolish enough to allow yourself to be indoctrinated into an unspeakably vile death-cult ruled by a god that requires a blood sacrifice before it can forgive.

No. True forgiveness is a gift, freely given with no expectation of repayment. It requires no payment, no sacrifice at all -- And that, right there, is the inescapable lie that is at the very heart of Christianity.

No god worthy of the name would condemn anyone to eternal punishment or exile.

No god worthy of the name would need to isolate itself from "sinners," any more than mortals need to isolate themselves from other mortals.

No god worthy of the name would set up such an egregiously idiotic scenario as the Crucifiction, demanding that mortals pay deference to a proxy human sacrifice and preventing them from paying their own debts with their own efforts.

Christianity is one of the worst philosophies ever invented by humans. It's a fucking mess, spread by threats and guilt, infecting generation after generation and damaging or destroying every civilization it touches.

Wake up. Reality is a lot better once you get to know it.
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16-12-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 03:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Now, apologize for calling me a "dodger."

No. You WERE dodging when I made the comment.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-12-2016, 06:42 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
I will respond more later.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-12-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 06:39 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 03:20 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Now, apologize for calling me a "dodger."

No. You WERE dodging when I made the comment.

Again, not dodging. Just waiting until it was in the correct post. Get off that. I won't dodge you.
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16-12-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
Lots of people suffered much worse than Jesus did and for much lesser causes. If we're going to worship someone for being tortured in the name of righteousness, let's worship the women who had their breasts cut off by religious extremists in Cameroon for worshiping the wrong deity (I mean, the Bible only says to stone people who worship foreign gods!), or none, and refusing to convert when demanded to do so. Let's worship the Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire in the middle of the street rather than collude with imperialist governments tearing their nations apart.

Not to mention that, if I was an immortal God or had godlike powers/knowledge and I knew I would come back to life (not to mention ascend to heaven) after the event, I might even volunteer to be crucified to death, go to hell for three days, and return to life, just to see what it was like. What a ride!

Or as one comedian (I forget which one) put it, "Jesus had a pretty bad weekend for your sins."

Personally, I take serious issue with the entire idea of letting anyone get away with calling it "free will" or a "free gift". Astreja (as usual) already hit the nail on the head, but I think it bears mentioning that God (as Christianity describes him) is the moral equivalent of a mugger or rapist, pointing a gun at a person and "offering" them a choice:

"You have made me desire you with your slutty clothes. It's your fault. You owe me now, and well, I have this gun so I am much more powerful than you. But I really want to love you. If you will just get on your knees and surrender to me, I will share with you all my vast wealth. Of course, if you do not, I will be forced to shoot you with this gun because you have offended me. It's your free choice. Will you accept my free gift of life from the debt you owe me?"

In any other situation but religion, we would call this idea ludicrous and beneath any modicum of moral thinking. That Christians can call it "free" with a straight face never ceases to amaze me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-12-2016, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 07:38 PM by socialistview.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 07:08 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Lots of people suffered much worse than Jesus did and for much lesser causes. If we're going to worship someone for being tortured in the name of righteousness, let's worship the women who had their breasts cut off by religious extremists in Cameroon for worshiping the wrong deity (I mean, the Bible only says to stone people who worship foreign gods!), or none, and refusing to convert when demanded to do so. Let's worship the Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire in the middle of the street rather than collude with imperialist governments tearing their nations apart.

Not to mention that, if I was an immortal God or had godlike powers/knowledge and I knew I would come back to life (not to mention ascend to heaven) after the event, I might even volunteer to be crucified to death, go to hell for three days, and return to life, just to see what it was like. What a ride!

Or as one comedian (I forget which one) put it, "Jesus had a pretty bad weekend for your sins."

Personally, I take serious issue with the entire idea of letting anyone get away with calling it "free will" or a "free gift". Astreja (as usual) already hit the nail on the head, but I think it bears mentioning that God (as Christianity describes him) is the moral equivalent of a mugger or rapist, pointing a gun at a person and "offering" them a choice:

"You have made me desire you with your slutty clothes. It's your fault. You owe me now, and well, I have this gun so I am much more powerful than you. But I really want to love you. If you will just get on your knees and surrender to me, I will share with you all my vast wealth. Of course, if you do not, I will be forced to shoot you with this gun because you have offended me. It's your free choice. Will you accept my free gift of life from the debt you owe me?"

In any other situation but religion, we would call this idea ludicrous and beneath any modicum of moral thinking. That Christians can call it "free" with a straight face never ceases to amaze me.

Read romans 2 rocket surgoen and please ask me questions from there. And god looked for a person to please his wrath for an evil world and the fire is god its called the comforter for all the pain your already experiencing.
https://www.ecclesia.org/truth/martyrdom.html
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16-12-2016, 07:49 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
Nothing in this world is free it takes blood and sweat. When the world rebelled god made a covenant with abraham. Jesus wasn't suppose to die but since he did the gentiles were given grace becuase the jews fully rebelled by killing jesus. Blood was for the jews not christians but god wanted to kill himself for the hurt he recieved when the world rejected him and all his treasures. Like the whore you can't be with me you have to go somewhere else not here he's not putting a gun to your head hell wasn't made for men but that's where you go becuase you can't be with god.
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16-12-2016, 08:21 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The Doctrine of Hell
People go to Hell because they do not want to be with God and Jesus and me in Heaven. Their choice.

Depends on which version of christianity you follow, doesn't it?

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  At the world's end a person can spend eternity with God or not with God. Not with God is called Hell.

You dare contradict the bible???

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness*, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

*hey, a change from the fire...

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
... into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

John 5:28-29
The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  If you don't want to spend time with God now on Earth your probably don't want to spend eternity with Him. God is good - all the good. No God there is no good. Hell has no God so no good.

Is this the same god that drowned all the babies in the Flood?
The same god that allowed, permitted and gave the rules for slavery?

This is not off-topic. You claimed that god was good. Is slavery good?

Your god supposedly drowned the whole world for the sins of people in the middle east. Plants, animals, people on other continents. Was that good?

By the words of his own book, your god is not good.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Christian doctrine does not say that Jesus will save only those who avoid sins. The exact opposite is true. The price and punishment for all sin was paid on the cross of Jesus Christ. Even the Bald Guy's.

I reject that doctrine. Some guy claims he's going to die for my sins? Whether I want him to or not? I'm man enough to stand up for my own actions good or bad. If I'm not good enough for something on my own, I have enough self respect to reject someone else paying the debt for me.

It's called being an adult. Acknowledging the consequences of your actions. Reaping the rewards and accepting the penalties.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The sin that sends one to Hell is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. In other words rejecting the Good News of Jesus Christ takin care of sin for you.

Yeah. Three gods, one god, whatever. Makes tons of sense.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Babies - No

Wrong. according to the roman catholic church, the best they will say is "we don't know." And don't even start on the subject of Limbo, which was their bullshit doctrine before that.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Haven't heard - No, more to it than just that.
Ghandi - Loved the message of Christ hated the Christians.

The exact doctrine varies, but there are churches that say the unbaptized are in hell. There are some that say they don't know. There are some that still preach Limbo.

Lot of variations for a divine message, eh?

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The pain He feels is sadness for you for rejecting Christ.

A perfect being can feel no pain. A perfect being is, by definition, perfect.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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16-12-2016, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 08:40 PM by Bzltyr.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
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16-12-2016, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 08:39 PM by Bzltyr.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
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