Christian Doctrine
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21-12-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(21-12-2016 08:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  Genesis also says that woman was created from a rib of Adam's?

Facepalm
How did I forget that one when considering how scientifically accurate the story in Genesis is... obviously making a woman from a man's rib matches the science of biology perfectly. We'd have to get rid of that pesky Y chromosome and double the X but that shouldn't be a big hurdle to overcome.

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21-12-2016, 10:32 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(21-12-2016 08:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  PS: Not only does geology reject the global flood but so does biology Smile i.e. that lovely theory of Evolution that you guys like to bang on about. So please tell me:

    You forgot the ice cores do not show a global flood - come on if you are going to attack use all your weapons.
    Quote:
  • Is big bang correct and evolution wrong?
  • Is the Noah story some kind of metaphor? Was there a local flood and not a global one? Are you aware of the available evidence for the evolution of humans?

    Yes, it is laughable. Riddled with hoaxes.
    Quote:Remember that bit where you said "Genesis says that plants came before animals". That's... based on evolution right?

    Nope, based on the Bible and the fossil record.
    Quote:Genesis also says that woman was created from a rib of Adam's? Is that story true? Men and women have the same number of ribs by the way. Also if evolution is true then man and woman can't have been made separately as we'd both be descended from ape species? Is Man some kind of special species? Not an animal?

    You mentioned somewhere something about "If God is that good to make the universe then he can do anything". Please understand this is not a valid explanation. Sure, God could have created everything that we see and interact with along with fake memories for everyone and so forth in the last 15 seconds. Yet you are extremely sure that he didn't.

    If you want to convince me then saying "Magic" is not convincing.

    Sorry this post got long.

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    21-12-2016, 10:34 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 09:40 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
    (21-12-2016 08:48 AM)morondog Wrote:  You mentioned somewhere something about "If God is that good to make the universe then he can do anything". Please understand this is not a valid explanation. Sure, God could have created everything that we see and interact with along with fake memories for everyone and so forth in the last 15 seconds. Yet you are extremely sure that he didn't.

    If you want to convince me then saying "Magic" is not convincing.

    If G-d created the universe and everything in it 15 seconds ago, then we're not meant to know it because the solution to the puzzle is still a very old universe.

    All evidence points to a universe that is billions of years old. That's what we're meant to see.

    Why do you assume I am a young Earth creationist. Never said that.
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    21-12-2016, 10:36 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:24 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Not sure on the global flood. There are proponents of that. The evidence seem to go against that. The Bible does not say that explicitly. Whole world is not equal to Global. Scholars have looked at all the passages where "whole world" etc. have been used and it always means more "known world" or the world known to a particular person. The Flood does not have to be global to be Biblical.

    If the flood was local why did Noah have to build a boat and keep 2 of every animal? Why couldn't he just travel outside the range of the expected flood? That seems like it would have been a whole lot simpler. Also, if it was just a local flood they wouldn't have had to remain on the boat for a year.

    As an old legend of a local flood that grew in the telling over time it makes sense. As anything approaching accuracy of even a local flood it just doesn't work.

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    21-12-2016, 10:36 AM (This post was last modified: 21-12-2016 10:43 AM by RocketSurgeon76.)
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:32 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Yes, it is laughable. Riddled with hoaxes.

    Actually, it was the evolutionary biologists who proved they were hoaxes. Almost every one of the hoaxes were doubted by biologists from the get-go because they didn't fit with the rest of the picture that was emerging.

    This short video talks about it, and manages to be pretty entertaining. I rather like this guy.





    For you to claim it is "riddled" with hoaxes is to misrepresent the facts. Again, I don't think you're deliberately lying, here, but repeating the lies of others without questioning it. So, please, I invite you to look at what the claims are and what the reality is about those hoaxes.

    Edit to Add: It's a 2-parter. There's a clickable link to the next episode near the end of the first episode, down in the bottom-right-hand corner.

    "Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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    21-12-2016, 10:44 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    I went through the evidence years ago and was dissatisfied. The supposed ancestors were chimps pigs lemurs lies by lying liars. You know the history. You also know there is no connection - at least not that I have heard about.
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    21-12-2016, 10:50 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:44 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I went through the evidence years ago and was dissatisfied. The supposed ancestors were chimps pigs lemurs lies by lying liars. You know the history. You also know there is no connection - at least not that I have heard about.

    Okay now I can say you're just deliberately lying.

    I do know the history. I was a professional biologist. The few hoaxes (such as Piltdown Man and Nebraska Man) were doubted and argued against from the beginning, and exposed by biologists as better technology for examination became available.

    The other finds are genuine, and form a coherent picture. It is dishonest to pretend that at most half a dozen deliberate frauds among literally thousands of hominid finds means that "the supposed ancestors were chimps pigs lemurs".

    That is outright, flat-out, bullshit.

    "Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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    21-12-2016, 10:52 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:34 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
    (21-12-2016 09:40 AM)Aliza Wrote:  If G-d created the universe and everything in it 15 seconds ago, then we're not meant to know it because the solution to the puzzle is still a very old universe.

    All evidence points to a universe that is billions of years old. That's what we're meant to see.

    Why do you assume I am a young Earth creationist. Never said that.

    I was actually replying to MD with that comment. Based on what I've scanned through, it seems your views are more like mine in this respect. I don't see a contradiction between Torah and science. Unlike Christianity, Judaism has very old writings that make this connection much easier, but however you want to paint it, if you're not denying science then I don't care how you arrive at that mindset.
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    21-12-2016, 10:55 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:50 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
    (21-12-2016 10:44 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I went through the evidence years ago and was dissatisfied. The supposed ancestors were chimps pigs lemurs lies by lying liars. You know the history. You also know there is no connection - at least not that I have heard about.

    Okay now I can say you're just deliberately lying.

    All right then. So now finally you say that I am lying. So, previously you were lying about me lying but only now can you truly say I am lying.

    Oops, good luck getting that foot out of your mouth.

    btw I have looked as the evidence so you are dead wrong again.
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    21-12-2016, 10:58 AM
    RE: Christian Doctrine
    (21-12-2016 10:36 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
    (21-12-2016 10:32 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Yes, it is laughable. Riddled with hoaxes.

    Actually, it was the evolutionary biologists who proved they were hoaxes. Almost every one of the hoaxes were doubted by biologists from the get-go because they didn't fit with the rest of the picture that was emerging.

    This short video talks about it, and manages to be pretty entertaining. I rather like this guy.





    For you to claim it is "riddled" with hoaxes is to misrepresent the facts. Again, I don't think you're deliberately lying, here, but repeating the lies of others without questioning it. So, please, I invite you to look at what the claims are and what the reality is about those hoaxes.

    Edit to Add: It's a 2-parter. There's a clickable link to the next episode near the end of the first episode, down in the bottom-right-hand corner.

    Rocket, one of the scientists from Oxford, E. T. Hall, who exposed the Piltdown Man hoax also tested the Shroud of Turin found it to be from the 13th century. It's funny to point this out to Christians when they bring up the Piltdown topic.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2001/aug/22/local/me-36923

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