Christian Doctrine
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26-12-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 10:13 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-12-2016 04:53 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  One is Joseph the other is Mary

While I find your other apologetics arguable ad-hoc rationalizations to support a conclusion you have already reached, this one is just laughable. Both give the strictly male line and the lists are simply not compatible.

Both genealogies are invalid. One goes through a cursed line, and the other goes through the wrong son, Nathan, instead of Solomon. Any which way you paint it, neither genealogy works.

Then of course, we have the added complication that Jesus is not paternally related to either of those genealogies anyway. G-d clearly promises David that the messiah will be a descendant who comes directly from his seed, his body, through his son Solomon.
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26-12-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 10:26 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 10:13 AM)unfogged Wrote:  While I find your other apologetics arguable ad-hoc rationalizations to support a conclusion you have already reached, this one is just laughable. Both give the strictly male line and the lists are simply not compatible.

Both genealogies are invalid. One goes through a cursed line, and the other goes through the wrong son, Nathan, instead of Solomon. Any which way you paint it, neither genealogy works.

Then of course, we have the added complication that Jesus is not paternally related to either of those genealogies anyway. G-d clearly promises David that the messiah will be a descendant who comes directly from his seed, his body, through his son Solomon.

Which = Christianity is total bollocks imo
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26-12-2016, 11:18 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 10:26 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 10:13 AM)unfogged Wrote:  While I find your other apologetics arguable ad-hoc rationalizations to support a conclusion you have already reached, this one is just laughable. Both give the strictly male line and the lists are simply not compatible.

Both genealogies are invalid. One goes through a cursed line, and the other goes through the wrong son, Nathan, instead of Solomon. Any which way you paint it, neither genealogy works.

Then of course, we have the added complication that Jesus is not paternally related to either of those genealogies anyway. G-d clearly promises David that the messiah will be a descendant who comes directly from his seed, his body, through his son Solomon.

Magic?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-12-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(24-12-2016 04:31 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Pleiades: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy...e10222014/
http://www.wikihow.com/Find-the-Pleiades-Star-Cluster
http://earthsky.org/favorite-star-patter...ide-renown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiades_i...literature
Arabia and the Levant[edit]
In Arabic the Pleiades are known as al-Thurayya الثريا, and mentioned in Islamic literature. Muhammad is noted to have counted twelve stars in the constellation as reported in Ibn Ishaq (this was in the time before telescopes when most could only see six). The name was borrowed into Persian and Turkish as a female given name, and is in use throughout the Middle East (for example Princess Soraya of Iran and Thoraya Obaid). It is also the name of the Thuraya satellite phone system based in the United Arab Emirates.

All of these sites mention that only six are visible with the naked eye.

Merry Christmas to all and remember Jesus is the reason for the season.

Keep the Saturn in Saturnalia, dickhead.

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26-12-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(25-12-2016 03:49 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 03:54 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Why are you limiting to physically? We cannot fly without a machine. We cannot snap our fingers and pop on over to another country or planet. These are limits to our free will. You can't just arbitrarily remove them because they aren't within the realm of what's possible for us - their not being possible is precisely the point. Why is sin allowed to be possible? Care to actually answer the question now? Consider

I wanted to comment that this is a really good question. Much better than the OP gives credit for. I wanted to talk about it briefly.

A couple years ago I finished reading the eye of the World Series by Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson. Mild spoiler here, won't ruin the story if you haven't read it. In the last book the hero has the option to kill the dark one, which is the source of all evil in the world. Doing so would not just remove the evil demons and whatnot, but also the desire in people to act in an immoral fashion. Indeed, they would be unable to act in an immoral way.

So why doesn't god do this? Why not make it so that we were unable to act in an immoral fashion? Keep all the ability to choose intact, but simply remove the ability to act poorly? Put something in our brains which prevents those synapses from connecting in that way.

Yes, you would still have free will. You could choose to eat cheese or muffins. You could choose to go to law school or pursue a degree in education. But the idea of murdering someone would not be something that would ever come up.

If god is all-powerful, he could do that. So why not?

Yes, I agree. I've asked this question of Christians numerous times and never gotten a straight answer.

Assuming the Christian god is omniscient and knows past, present and future and has pre-knowledge of all human choices even before they make them, even before creation began.....

Why would an omniscient, loving, merciful god create people knowing that they will, by their own free will, go to hell?

Nope, I've never gotten a straight answer.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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26-12-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
Quote:"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. (Luke 1:27)

There is no mention of the lineage of Mary. And according to the gospel story, Yeshua was begat upon Mary by the holy spirit of god. So there would be no relevancy even in the familial history of Joseph, son of Heli, because Joseph was not the sire of Yeshua.

Or, Yeshua bin Joseph, Joshua son of Joseph, was the bastard son of Joseph begat upon Mary out of wedlock. And the reason the family fled Nazareth was because being a small town everyone would know these homies hadn't married yet when they did the math once Mary started showing.
This would result in her being stoned to death for being pregnant out of wedlock.

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26-12-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(24-12-2016 04:53 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Jesus's genealogy.
-MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus.
-LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three.

One is Joseph the other is Mary


Except it doesn't say that, it's a wholesale fabricated excuse conceived without corroborating evidence. Plus the ancient Hebrew didn't give two shits about female lineage, everything of importance was traced through the men. Even assuming it was true, one goes all the way back to Adam. How come the other is only half as long and doesn't end at Eve? How come both don't converge with Noah and his wife or children?

Your bullshit has too many holes.



(24-12-2016 04:53 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Where Jesus went and when.
-MK 6:53 After the feeding of the 5000, Jesus and the disciples went to Gennesaret.
-JN 6:17-25 They went to Capernaum.

Capernaum was in the district of Gennesaret.


Uh, no. One is a fishing village, the other was a city. Both happen to be on the northern border of the Sea of Galilee, which is like saying that Cleveland, Ohio and Erie, Pennsylvania are equivalent locations because they're both on the southern shore of Lake Erie.



(24-12-2016 04:53 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Order of the Resurrection, who showed up and when.
-MT 28:1 The first visitors to the tomb were Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (two).
-MK 16:1 Both of the above plus Salome (three).
-LK 23:55 - 24:1, 24:10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and "other women" (at least five).
-JN 20:1 Mary Magdalene only (one).
Simply point of view.


Fuck you. Point of view my ass. Each account gives different numbers of specific people. It's not like each said 'Mary, the other Mary, and a bunch of other people'. There isn't some amorphous mass of unnamed people. In one version they cannot move the stone because it's just two of them, a problem you don't run into when there's an entire group there, different perspective or no.

Dude, are you even trying at this point? Do your lies even register with you? Or are you no longer capable of feeling shame when you're being dishonest?



(24-12-2016 04:53 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(23-12-2016 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Jesus's last words on the cross.
-MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Matthew states in verse 50 "And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit."

Matthew does not say what His last words were.

Neither does Mark.Mar 15:37 "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost."
Again no critical reading skills.

(23-12-2016 03:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  -LK 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit."

Luke may have recorded His last words that Matt and Mark just used cried out again.


Do not quote mine me motherfucker.

Notice how you left out John. Let me refresh your memory.

-JN 19:30 "It is finished." (Note: Even though both MT and MK allegedly represent direct quotes and are translated similarly, the actual Greek words used for God are different. MT uses "Eli" and MK uses "Eloi.")

Plus, it says "Jesus' last recorded words are". If his last gasp was unintelligible or not recorded, so be it; but it still contradicts Luke (who fails to corroborate the unrecorded cry) and John (nor does it fix Matthew and Mark using different Greek words for god), the one you dishonestly cut out of my quote.

Plus it's all still rather irrelevant since none of the Gospels are eyewitness accounts anyways.

So go fuck yourself. Lying to someone's face may be acceptable where you live, but you'll get no such leeway here; you'll only receive rightfully earned derision.

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26-12-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 12:30 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  
Quote:"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23)

To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. (Luke 1:27)

There is no mention of the lineage of Mary. And according to the gospel story, Yeshua was begat upon Mary by the holy spirit of god. So there would be no relevancy even in the familial history of Joseph, son of Heli, because Joseph was not the sire of Yeshua.

Or, Yeshua bin Joseph, Joshua son of Joseph, was the bastard son of Joseph begat upon Mary out of wedlock. And the reason the family fled Nazareth was because being a small town everyone would know these homies hadn't married yet when they did the math once Mary started showing.
This would result in her being stoned to death for being pregnant out of wedlock.

Actually, they were married. Jewish marriages come in two phases. The first phase is like an engagement, which lasts a full year. In Jewish law, this first phase is a legally binding marriage. The second phase is more of a formality, and this is when the couple moves into the home that the husband has spent the last year preparing.

And children born to the woman during this phase 1 of marriage, who are not the offspring of the husband, are bastards.

The Christistian narrative of Jesus's birth screws them at every turn it tries to make to explain Jesus's house affiliation. He's either Joseph's son, and not qualified to be the messiah, or he's not Joseph's son, and still not qualified to be the messiah.

Tee Hee!

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26-12-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(24-12-2016 04:31 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Merry Christmas to all and remember Jesus is the reason for the season.

I thank you for your wishes, but were you to travel to Australia, I could easily disabuse you of the "season/reason" thing LOL.

Downunder, Christmas is just an excuse for a few weeks lying on the beach, chatting up chicks at the office party, getting pissed every second day, and chucking a few dozen prawns on the barbie.

—Nuthin' at all to do with some old mythical sky-daddy.

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I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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26-12-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 02:33 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(24-12-2016 04:31 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Merry Christmas to all and remember Jesus is the reason for the season.

I thank you for your wishes, but were you to travel to Australia, I could easily disabuse you of the "season/reason" thing LOL.

Downunder, Christmas is just an excuse for a few weeks lying on the beach, chatting up chicks at the office party, getting pissed every second day, and chucking a few dozen prawns on the barbie.

—Nuthin' at all to do with some old mythical sky-daddy.

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(This is a tea towel by the way.)


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Do you Aussies have any christmas song? Like maybe something about Kangaroos at the Nativity scene or something like that? I'm just thinking off the top of my head here. Tongue

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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