Christian Doctrine
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26-12-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 02:51 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 02:33 PM)SYZ Wrote:  I thank you for your wishes, but were you to travel to Australia, I could easily disabuse you of the "season/reason" thing LOL.

Downunder, Christmas is just an excuse for a few weeks lying on the beach, chatting up chicks at the office party, getting pissed every second day, and chucking a few dozen prawns on the barbie.

—Nuthin' at all to do with some old mythical sky-daddy.

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(This is a tea towel by the way.)


Thumbsup

Do you Aussies have any christmas song? Like maybe something about Kangaroos at the Nativity scene or something like that? I'm just thinking off the top of my head here. Tongue

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26-12-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 12:54 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 12:30 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  There is no mention of the lineage of Mary. And according to the gospel story, Yeshua was begat upon Mary by the holy spirit of god. So there would be no relevancy even in the familial history of Joseph, son of Heli, because Joseph was not the sire of Yeshua.

Or, Yeshua bin Joseph, Joshua son of Joseph, was the bastard son of Joseph begat upon Mary out of wedlock. And the reason the family fled Nazareth was because being a small town everyone would know these homies hadn't married yet when they did the math once Mary started showing.
This would result in her being stoned to death for being pregnant out of wedlock.

Actually, they were married. Jewish marriages come in two phases. The first phase is like an engagement, which lasts a full year. In Jewish law, this first phase is a legally binding marriage. The second phase is more of a formality, and this is when the couple moves into the home that the husband has spent the last year preparing.

And children born to the woman during this phase 1 of marriage, who are not the offspring of the husband, are bastards.

The Christistian narrative of Jesus's birth screws them at every turn it tries to make to explain Jesus's house affiliation. He's either Joseph's son, and not qualified to be the messiah, or he's not Joseph's son, and still not qualified to be the messiah.

Tee Hee!

[Image: bart-snicker.gif]

It's all a lie.

That's the thing. Think about it. All those people who perished as martyrs and are right now being killed in the ME because they're Christian. They're dying thinking it is all truth and they'll awaken in a heaven that doesn't exist.

And it is all because they didn't bother to think as they read the bible.

And the contradiction in terms is to call it the, Judeo-Christian faith tradition.
**this link** makes a short proof of why Yeshua and his legend is not able to be associated with the coming of the OT, the Torah,and its messiah.

Christians know Jews don't believe in Jesus. How do they not find out why that is?

Really, it's a shame. Think about the millions of people in America who believe what is a lie. A complete lie.And there are people right now paying to go to Bible universities and colleges.Hoping to teach this stuff.

And it is free, save for the time spent, to find out that they could save their money and their mind if they would just research what they're asked to take on faith.

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”

That's taken from a letter to the Hebrews that a Roman citizen and Pharisee,Saul of Tarsus,is thought to have written. This is a guy who relished killing apostate Jews who turned from the faith and to the new religion committed to Messiah Christ.

Then he's walking on the road to Damascus one day and with two companions accompanying him because he's off to seek out and kill more apostate Jews.
When all the sudden this light appears. and depending on what verse in Luke, I think is the book, that you read the two companions either did hear or did not hear the voice that spoke from within that light.
"Saul, saul, why dost thou persecute me?"

And Saul, who the Greek text translates from that Hebrew name to the Greek Paul, asks, "Lord? Is that you? "
Well yes, it's Jesus. Right?
But this is the thing about reading that passage that introduces the Pharisee who called himself that using present tense even after he "converted" to Christianity. And is the source for nearly 2/3rds of the new testament.

Saul of Tarsus never heard Jesus preach. Never met him.

And the scriptures say Jesus anointed his disciples, which means student, and their feet with oil so that they could set out on the mission he bestowed upon them. To deliver the good news. And that's how they became apostles. No one who did not walk with Jesus , per the gospels, are able to call themselves Apostle. Because that was a condition of the bestowal of authority under god. They had to walk with Christ and be sent on his mission.

So Saul believes this light when it answers his inquiry to the lord that it is Jesus.
But the scriptures say that the antithesis of god is lord of this earth. And Jesus in his teachings in the gospels told his disciples in Matthew , there will be those who claim Jesus is here, there, come see. They'll work miracles, and show signs and wonders. But do not believe them.

Here's Saul later on doing exactly what Jesus forewarned his actual Disciples,Apostles, against . And not to believe anyone that makes the claims about seeing Jesus.

Meanwhile, in all of the new testament epistles, which means "letter", does any actual Apostle of Jesus refer to Saul/Paul as an Apostle. But Saul/Paul refers to himself as an Apostle 33 times in his own letters.

During that meeting with the light on the Damascus road? Saul was struck blind!
Scales appeared over his eyes. His companions took him to a nearby village and he was tended to by a village elder and healer.

Jesus healed the blind so as to let them see.
Again, that reporting is the antithesis of what Jesus did do. He didn't blind people. He healed people because they had faith.

Saul's eyes were healed after he agreed to do that voice that followed him to the old man's house asked. Spread the words that voice would give to him. Big Grin

All this transpired and became the new testament, that has just four books speaking of Jesus and his ministry, and over 20 that are the letters of Saul, who was not appointed by Jesus to be an Apostle, after Jesus left this world.
But not before he told his Disciples don't believe anything Saul says. (That aforementioned warning about those who would claim they'd seen Jesus. )

And not a single Christian thinks about the corollary. That Jesus warned against what Saul/Paul did.
And it all was compiled by a pagan Roman emperor named Constantine. Well, Christianity was made legal. And then he convened a council of bishops that he sat in on and influenced so as to come up with the creedal system of belief in what it means to be "Christian".

And the other thing? Saul/Paul was ultimately beheaded by Rome under order of Nero.
He was also imprisoned numerous times and his "prison letters/prison epistles", are also in the new testament.

How does a man put in prison for preaching get letters out of prison and sent to the churches he founded? So as to spread his preaching even more even though he's behind bars?

No Christian ever considers that one either. Or if they do they excuse it with nonsense.

No thinking person can be a Christian.
It's that simple really.

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26-12-2016, 03:22 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:09 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  No thinking person can be a Christian.
It's that simple really.

... I dunno. I know plenty of smart Christians. They're... blind to the faults in their belief system, but it's an interesting thing. I am confident in my reasoning abilities and so forth, but... seeing people I know well who're unable to see past what to me is a transparent lie... makes me wonder whether I could be caught the same way.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-12-2016, 03:30 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:09 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 12:54 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Actually, they were married. Jewish marriages come in two phases. The first phase is like an engagement, which lasts a full year. In Jewish law, this first phase is a legally binding marriage. The second phase is more of a formality, and this is when the couple moves into the home that the husband has spent the last year preparing.

And children born to the woman during this phase 1 of marriage, who are not the offspring of the husband, are bastards.

The Christistian narrative of Jesus's birth screws them at every turn it tries to make to explain Jesus's house affiliation. He's either Joseph's son, and not qualified to be the messiah, or he's not Joseph's son, and still not qualified to be the messiah.

Tee Hee!

[Image: bart-snicker.gif]

It's all a lie.

That's the thing. Think about it. All those people who perished as martyrs and are right now being killed in the ME because they're Christian. They're dying thinking it is all truth and they'll awaken in a heaven that doesn't exist.

And it is all because they didn't bother to think as they read the bible.

And the contradiction in terms is to call it the, Judeo-Christian faith tradition.
**this link** makes a short proof of why Yeshua and his legend is not able to be associated with the coming of the OT, the Torah,and its messiah.

Christians know Jews don't believe in Jesus. How do they not find out why that is?

Really, it's a shame. Think about the millions of people in America who believe what is a lie. A complete lie.And there are people right now paying to go to Bible universities and colleges.Hoping to teach this stuff.

And it is free, save for the time spent, to find out that they could save their money and their mind if they would just research what they're asked to take on faith.

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”

That's taken from a letter to the Hebrews that a Roman citizen and Pharisee,Saul of Tarsus,is thought to have written. This is a guy who relished killing apostate Jews who turned from the faith and to the new religion committed to Messiah Christ.

Paul wasn't a Pharisee. He was religiously uneducated and couldn't read Hebrew. He was also fairly ignorant (willfully or otherwise) of Jewish culture.

He was a fucking clown.
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26-12-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 03:09 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  No thinking person can be a Christian.
It's that simple really.

... I dunno. I know plenty of smart Christians. They're... blind to the faults in their belief system, but it's an interesting thing. I am confident in my reasoning abilities and so forth, but... seeing people I know well who're unable to see past what to me is a transparent lie... makes me wonder whether I could be caught the same way.

Sure. Smile I didn't say Christians are unintelligent. And I apologize if my words made it sound like I was.
My intention was to say that Christians don't think about what they're asked to take on faith. If they really rationally thought about what was asked of them, that which they were told to take on faith because this is truth in the beginning and forward through all the books of the bible, I believe they'd change their mind about holding faith.

Not even the bare bones of it is true. The fulfillment of messiah prophecy per the Torah. Jesus isn't believed to have been the messiah because he did not fulfill the requisite proofs to be the actual prophesied messiah.
The virgin birth is the first error. Not because it just doesn't happen but because it isn't anywhere in the torah as evidence of the messiah's being born into the world.

That link, re~posted (here) I believe is a brilliant synopsis as to why Jesus/Yeshua wasn't the Jewish messiah.

That's why I say, I don't think any thinking Christian, any Christian that rationally took apart everything they were asked to believe, could remain a Christian.
Also, the Jewish messiah is to be a man. Just a regular guy. Not a god-man like Jesus was.

He's the stuff of pagan fable. Not Jewish prophecy. (And I use to be a Christian)

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26-12-2016, 03:34 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:30 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Paul wasn't a Pharisee. He was religiously uneducated and couldn't read Hebrew. He was also fairly ignorant (willfully or otherwise) of Jewish culture.

He was a fucking clown.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Read the new testament and get back to me.

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26-12-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:34 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  
(26-12-2016 03:30 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Paul wasn't a Pharisee. He was religiously uneducated and couldn't read Hebrew. He was also fairly ignorant (willfully or otherwise) of Jewish culture.

He was a fucking clown.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Read the new testament and get back to me.

He claimed to be a student of Gamaliel, but he couldn't read Hebrew. We know this because he quotes the translation errors from the Septuagint. This is like claiming to be a great mathematician but being unable to multiply or divide. You can fool those less adept at math than yourself, but anyone with an actual math education is going to wipe the floor with you.

Also, as a religiously educated Jew myself, the things I've read about Paul are laughable. He was very, very disconnected from his community.
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26-12-2016, 03:44 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:34 PM)Whoopsie Daisy Wrote:  You have no idea what you're talking about. Read the new testament and get back to me.

Yeah we read it dipshit.

Who the fuck are you? 32 posts.

Fuck off!

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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26-12-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Christian Doctrine
"Read the New Testament and get back to me"?!?

Laugh out load

Well, if it says so in the Bible, then it MUST be true!

Aliza is correctly pointing out that Paul gets several elements of Jewish law and scriptural knowledge wrong, and in a way no one actually trained as a Pharisee would.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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26-12-2016, 03:56 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2016 04:00 PM by Whoopsie Daisy.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(26-12-2016 03:47 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  "Read the New Testament and get back to me"?!?

Laugh out load

Well, if it says so in the Bible, then it MUST be true!

Aliza is correctly pointing out that Paul gets several elements of Jewish law and scriptural knowledge wrong, and in a way no one actually trained as a Pharisee would.

Well, we're talking about the Christian perspective arrived at from the reading of the Christian new testament scriptures aren't we?

And in that context Saul of Tarsus was deemed a Pharisee.

The so called "writings" that some claim as an educated Jew have errors in, are all derived from that new testament text. And that goes to the aforementioned observation that a thinking Christian realizes the errors in the new testament. Which was compiled under the authority of the same power that 600 years prior had executed the man they later erected a faith to. Because Rome intended to live forever.

That's the crux of this debate. Saul the apostle to the goy. (In theory the man was a Hellenist)But we're talking what Christians believe. Jewish temples don't carry his writings, so what is to be reviewed from the man that claimed himself a Pharisee, (Acts 23:6) is in the new testament.
An educated Jew knows that. Smile

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