Christian Doctrine
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-12-2016, 09:10 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 11:20 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Jesus died then went to heaven. I don't think you would go through all that pain and suffering for eternal life. The world rebelled rocket surgeon. Jesus was doing it to make a better place even though where waiting for it. When jedus died hell happened and I can't believe you spoiled rockrt surgeon saying the world is a good place to live in while millions go hungrey and why they cling to a god who gives hope for a better life.

No, little slave, the "world" did not rebel.

A Bronze Age, Patriarchal, tribal-warrior goatherder people's priest class evolved a henotheist religion, which became a monotheist religion after they were conquered by the Babylonians (perhaps a bit sooner), out of the polytheistic traditions from which their people sprang. The world went right on turning.

People only rebel against tyranny. They do not rebel against benign rulership that cares about them. What you are asserting, when you say "the world rebelled", is that everyone on the planet-- from Aborigines to Native Americans to Chinese to Celts, and so on-- received a set of instructions that they defied, angering the God of the Hebrews.

Strangely, though, the Aborigines appear to have lived in Australia fairly comfortably for 50,000 years before Europeans showed up with guns and stories about Jehovah/Jesus (which they appear to have never heard of before, just as strangely), and pretty much ruined their world.

You can't just throw out trite nonsense and expect us to swallow it... or even to take you seriously as an adult.

Again, if God is all-powerful and capable of sending us to hell for displeasing him, then God is no different than a rapist pointing a gun at me, telling me I have offended him with my nature and my decision to reject him, and that if I don't obey him he will have no choice but to shoot me.

Except in this case, all we have is a BOOK telling us there's a rapist with a gun waiting for us, and that if we don't obey The Rules™, then the rapist will shoot us. Rules that look suspiciously like they were written by someone other than The Invisible Rapist. This is how we see your statement that we or "the world" have "rebelled" against The Rules™.

I suppose, if such a God did exist, then any moral person would be obligated to rebel... or become a slave.

It is clear which you chose.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
17-12-2016, 09:31 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
@Rocket Surgeon

Offtop:

I would say that people rebel against what they perceive as tyranny regardless of factual state. I think that USA could serve as example: if the tax burden in America was only a quarter of that in Britain then British rule hardly could be called tyrannical*.

To cite from Martin Malia History's Locomotives: Revolutions and the Making of the Modern World: The annals of no country can produce an Instance of so virulent a Rebellion, or such implacable madness and Fury, originating from such trivial causes, as those alleged by these unhappy People.

I think it most accurate to say that after successful rebellion previous regime will be thought as being despotic as it is a good way to bolster legitimacy of current one.

*Sure there could be other reasons for calling it such. I would say though that tyranny imply squeezing one subjects.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Szuchow's post
17-12-2016, 09:36 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 11:00 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  [...] What is the secret to replying to a post and being able to insert my answers in order right after the original post?

Firstly, a few home truths for you to swallow mate—before anybody will take any notice of your opinions, or consider any of your nonsensical arguments as having any veracity:

• Your god (or any other imaginary gods) do not exist—other than in your own mind and/or fantasies,

• You are not going to a place you call "heaven" when you die. Like mythical gods, its existence is simply another millennia-old myth,

• Unlike you, I haver never knowingly or deliberately sinned. I was born innocent of any crimes (as in actuality were you),

• The purported place you call "hell" does not exist. Its concept was invented to coerce uneducated peasants to fear the power of the church thousands of years ago,

• The man you call "Jesus" was not crucified by the Romans in the manner so described, and he did not arise from the dead; that's just wishful thinking augmenting yet another ancient myth,

• Your claim that "Most, if not all atheists, do not understand the Gospel" is unsupported by any viable evidence. It's nothing more than a virtual straw-man you've created in order to give more credence to your own scriptural claims,

• You may well think you're here "telling the truth", but it's nothing more than your internalised, delusional interpretation of what is true and what is not. Alone, you cannot tell the truth from lies. You need a massive body of empirical evidence to be certain, and a 2,500-year-old book written by a disparate group of uneducated camel-jockeys is totally irrelevant in a scientifically-enlightened 21st century,

• Your assertion that free will equates to "the choice to do right or to do wrong" is a non sequitur; it's like saying if I flip a coin, it'll fall at either heads or tails,

• As soon as a Christian apologist mentions Hitler (or the Nazis, or Stalin or Pol Pot) then they automatically lose the debate as far as I'm concerned. Those people have absolutely NOTHING to do with any debate about religion and Christianity, or gods or atheism, or morals, ethics, and justice.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 9 users Like SYZ's post
17-12-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 09:36 AM)SYZ Wrote:  • As soon as a Christian apologist mentions Hitler (or the Nazis, or Stalin or Pol Pot) then they automatically lose the debate as far as I'm concerned. Those people have absolutely NOTHING to do with any debate about religion and Christianity, or gods or atheism, or morals, ethics, and justice.

But said people are perfect showing of how being religious means shit in regard to morality - being religious did not stop Hitler nor Germans from mass murders, same with Stalin and Pol Pot (even if calling their ideologies religions is something that believers oppose). So I would say that they're relevant.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-12-2016, 10:01 AM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2016 11:28 AM by Bzltyr.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 09:36 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 11:00 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  [...] What is the secret to replying to a post and being able to insert my answers in order right after the original post?

Firstly, a few home truths for you to swallow mate—before anybody will take any notice of your opinions, or consider any of your nonsensical arguments as having any veracity:

• Your god (or any other imaginary gods) do not exist—other than in your own mind and/or fantasies,

Does too.

Quote:• You are not going to a place you call "heaven" when you die. Like mythical gods, its existence is simply another millennia-old myth,

Am so.

Quote:• Unlike you, I haver never knowingly or deliberately sinned. I was born innocent of any crimes (as in actuality were you),

Have too.

Quote:• The purported place you call "hell" does not exist. Its concept was invented to coerce uneducated peasants to fear the power of the church thousands of years ago,

It does so.

Quote:• The man you call "Jesus" was not crucified by the Romans in the manner so described, and he did not arise from the dead; that's just wishful thinking augmenting yet another ancient myth,

He was so killed.

Quote:• Your claim that "Most, if not all atheists, do not understand the Gospel" is unsupported by any viable evidence. It's nothing more than a virtual straw-man you've created in order to give more credence to your own scriptural claims,

They don't, they don't, they don't.

Quote:• You may well think you're here "telling the truth", but it's nothing more than your internalised, delusional interpretation of what is true and what is not. Alone, you cannot tell the truth from lies. You need a massive body of empirical evidence to be certain, and a 2,500-year-old book written by a disparate group of uneducated camel-jockeys is totally irrelevant in a scientifically-enlightened 21st century,

I didn't lie, so there.

Quote:• Your assertion that free will equates to "the choice to do right or to do wrong" is a non sequitur; it's like saying if I flip a coin, it'll fall at either heads or tails,

It is a choice.

Quote:• As soon as a Christian apologist mentions Hitler (or the Nazis, or Stalin or Pol Pot) then they automatically lose the debate as far as I'm concerned. Those people have absolutely NOTHING to do with any debate about religion and Christianity, or gods or atheism, or morals, ethics, and justice.

Wow, this one is true.

I am using this as a test to perfect posting.
I answered SYZ with the same amount of scholarship that he used in his post - maybe a bit more scholarship.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-12-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 12:36 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 08:43 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Don't do that.

I would like to challenge you to break the mold and have polite, honest and intellectual conversations with people and show that you understand why they may choose not to believe in your religion and that you respect those decisions and regard them as an equal –in every sense of the term- both physically and spiritually.

I suggest that you review my posts. They were free from personal attacks other than a few good-natured jibes to keep it interesting. Judge for yourself by actually looking. Its easy just search Bzltyr and you can read them all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-12-2016, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 17-12-2016 10:29 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 11:20 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Jesus died then went to heaven. I don't think you would go through all that pain and suffering for eternal life.

I never understood why (some) christians are so obsessed with the crucifiction. It was horrible, yes, it was a death sentence, yes. Yet you seem have no idea what else is possible in the realm of mankind. You have no idea what people were able/had to go through for their religious beliefs.

Check the video/audio below, starting with ca. 4:07:30 and listen to how the 3 main responsibles of the anabaptist movement in Münster got put to death, after they had been "interrogated" and tortured for half a year. Listen, and realize that hanging 3 days from a cross, can be a walk in the park to what other people have endured for what they did, and what they probably thought was rightful to do so, possibly until the moment they were finally allowed to die. Ironically these anabaptists were tried basically for exactly the same reason your beloved Christ was put to death yet in a far more brutal manner. They wanted to create "New Jerusalem" the empire of Christ, before judgement day, which they deemed near. Do you think they deserved an eternal afterlife? If the ordeal itself was a measure for if someone should have an eternal afterlife, they should, shouldnt they?

And this wasnt even, not by far, the most brutal execution someone endured. I am not even talking about stuff like Robert-François Damiens, whom was so brutally executed that i wont post it here because of some maybe faint hearted TTA members. Google it yourself if you want.

And by the way: What makes you think that Jan Matthys and John of Leiden did not talk to god?





Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deesse23's post
17-12-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 11:00 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 10:24 PM)Astreja Wrote:  i saw the posts before they were edited to read "deleted." Looked more like messed-up quote tags, with the entire post stuck in a quote box.

I only have a minute but I will come back and respond to your posts.

Astreja is correct. I tried to put my answers right after FatBaldHobit's statements and I messed it all up so it could not be read. But thanks for trusting me and thinking the best of me. - That's sarcasm.

What is the secret to replying to a post and being able to insert my answers in order right after the original post?

There was the implication from you that you didn't know why your posts were gone and that you deleted them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like pablo's post
17-12-2016, 10:24 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(16-12-2016 08:21 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The Doctrine of Hell
People go to Hell because they do not want to be with God and Jesus and me in Heaven. Their choice.

Depends on which version of christianity you follow, doesn't it?
No. That is what the Bible says.
Quote:
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  At the world's end a person can spend eternity with God or not with God. Not with God is called Hell.

You dare contradict the bible???

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
All those quote just say you are sent to Hell - it is still your choice.
Quote:
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  If you don't want to spend time with God now on Earth your probably don't want to spend eternity with Him. God is good - all the good. No God there is no good. Hell has no God so no good.

Is this the same god that drowned all the babies in the Flood?
Same guy.
Quote:The same god that allowed, permitted and gave the rules for slavery?
Yeah.
Quote:This is not off-topic. You claimed that god was good. Is slavery good?
No.
Quote:Your god supposedly drowned the whole world for the sins of people in the middle east. Plants, animals, people on other continents. Was that good?
Yeah.
Quote:By the words of his own book, your god is not good.
I think so.
Quote:
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Christian doctrine does not say that Jesus will save only those who avoid sins. The exact opposite is true. The price and punishment for all sin was paid on the cross of Jesus Christ. Even the Bald Guy's.

I reject that doctrine. Some guy claims he's going to die for my sins? Whether I want him to or not? I'm man enough to stand up for my own actions good or bad. If I'm not good enough for something on my own, I have enough self respect to reject someone else paying the debt for me.
You are not capable of paying the bill. You rejecting it is why you will be sent to Hell
Quote:It's called being an adult. Acknowledging the consequences of your actions. Reaping the rewards and accepting the penalties.
The penalty is pretty harsh.
Quote:

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The sin that sends one to Hell is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. In other words rejecting the Good News of Jesus Christ takin care of sin for you.

Yeah. Three gods, one god, whatever. Makes tons of sense.

(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Babies - No

Wrong. according to the roman catholic church, the best they will say is "we don't know." And don't even start on the subject of Limbo, which was their bullshit doctrine before that.
That would make the Roman Catholic Church wrong.
Quote:
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Haven't heard - No, more to it than just that.
Ghandi - Loved the message of Christ hated the Christians.

The exact doctrine varies, but there are churches that say the unbaptized are in hell. There are some that say they don't know. There are some that still preach Limbo.
They are wrong as well.
Quote:Lot of variations for a divine message, eh?
Yeah, people sure have screwed up the message through the years..
Quote:
(16-12-2016 03:08 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  The pain He feels is sadness for you for rejecting Christ.

A perfect being can feel no pain. A perfect being is, by definition, perfect.

I don't know how you know what a perfect being can feel or not feel but God loves you and He is not pissed at you in the least.[quote]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-12-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: Christian Doctrine
(17-12-2016 10:18 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 11:00 PM)Bzltyr Wrote:  I only have a minute but I will come back and respond to your posts.

Astreja is correct. I tried to put my answers right after FatBaldHobit's statements and I messed it all up so it could not be read. But thanks for trusting me and thinking the best of me. - That's sarcasm.

What is the secret to replying to a post and being able to insert my answers in order right after the original post?

There was the implication from you that you didn't know why your posts were gone and that you deleted them.

I never said I did not know why they were "gone" just that they were messed up. I just posted "Deleted post" instead so people would not waste their time trying to read them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: