Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-01-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(19-01-2017 12:20 PM)julep Wrote:  Instead of tweaking their theology, the fundamentalists I know have adopted a bunker mentality. They homeschool/send their kids to religious school--public school is unthinkable. They don't let their kids socialize with nonbelievers. They vote for politicians who promise laws aimed to produce a society where dangerous/worldly ideas are not expressed (or are expressed dismissively) and where persons who don't conform to Christian male/female roles are kept out of sight. They hope that these laws will make a world where their kids will be safe from ideas or people who could turn them away from God and into the path of eternal damnation. The fear of hell for their kids and other loved ones drives everything.
As someone who is on a couple of Christian dating sites, would agree with this. So many who are more "serious" about their faith tend to say things like "my children will be homeschooled or sent to a Christian/Catholic school. I REFUSE (caps usually theirs) to send my children to one of the government schools where they'll be indoctrinated". And other than the parenthetical, and adding Christian/Catholic instead of her denomination, ripped that from someone's actual profile. Plus tons of people who seem to think "courtship" is the way to go, because dating encourages sexual immorality.

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-01-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(19-01-2017 07:20 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  As someone who is on a couple of Christian dating sites, would agree with this. So many who are more "serious" about their faith tend to say things like "my children will be homeschooled or sent to a Christian/Catholic school. I REFUSE (caps usually theirs) to send my children to one of the government schools where they'll be indoctrinated". And other than the parenthetical, and adding Christian/Catholic instead of her denomination, ripped that from someone's actual profile. Plus tons of people who seem to think "courtship" is the way to go, because dating encourages sexual immorality.
I think that whether they are reacting by "doubling down" or easing up, they are feeling the pressure from society.

No group can hold to morals or ethics that diverge greatly from society as a whole. If they do so, they first become socially and/or economically disadvantaged, and at some point, they may experience full-on ostracism or even find themselves breaking the law. An example might be someone practicing a 1950s style "spare the rod or spoil the child" strong-father authoritarianism, with so much corporeal punishment that you find the child protection services people knocking on your door.

Fundamentalists have rightly seen this coming and have been circling the wagons by advocating home schooling and private schools as you point out, and even being willing to give up their already tenuous moral authority by endorsing a pussy-groper and chronic liar for president so long as he advances their agendas in other regards. Others, perhaps seeing the handwriting on the wall but also concerned about poor youth retention rates and falling church attendance generally, have sought to soften their message by at least changing emphases if not experimenting with actual dogma changes like universal reconciliation and seeing how far they can get with it.

Over time I think there are far less limits on progress they can make with the latter vs the former strategy. You can only get so far trying to construct a theocracy; even if you temporarily succeed it will collapse under its own weight. All you will generally accomplish anyway is to construct religious ghettoes which also are a fail ultimately. Whereas so long as you don't move too quickly, theological moderation has basically no limits.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
19-01-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
Pretty ironic that the fundies are evolving.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like pablo's post
19-01-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(19-01-2017 08:32 PM)pablo Wrote:  Pretty ironic that the fundies are evolving.
Lol. I never thought I'd see the day.

It has been 40 years, the better part of two generations, since my salad days at Bible institute, and I sometimes reflect that if I had stayed in the faith I would be decrying these changes like any other old codger. But that's how change works in the religious world: it keeps pace with society, just a couple of generations behind. And fundamentalists, especially, can be counted on to lead from behind.

I often point out that the 1930s version of my 1970s faith was preaching strenuously against "popular entertainments" like radio and moving pictures and dancing -- as well as unchaperoned dating and women's skirts shorter than ankle length. All of those except dancing, my tribe did in the 1970s without giving it a second thought. Every change in society is unthinkable, until it's not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like mordant's post
19-01-2017, 09:06 PM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(19-01-2017 07:20 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I REFUSE (caps usually theirs) to send my children to one of the government schools where they'll be indoctrinated".

[Image: latest?cb=20150612075940]

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-01-2017, 07:59 AM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
It should be pointed out that it is not just fundamentalist Christians who home school. Others including atheists do it also. There are arguments to be made that public schools (or at least some of them) are not that terrific. I don't necessarily buy them, but I understand the position. My daughter is an atheist but home schools her boys, in large measure because she has a special needs child and he is ill-served by the public schools in her area. In fact she is considering opening a clearing-house and book exchange for home school curricula that are not theist-oriented.

Many non home schoolers are pretty uninformed about, and hold misbeliefs about what is inherent in, home schooling. My grandsons for example are independently tested each year even though their state of residence doesn't require it, and about half their classes are taught by people other than their parents through home school co-ops. And many of those are quite social and team-oriented. My oldest grandson was part of a robotics team last year that won awards at the state level and went on to national competition.

That said, enforcing the norms and beliefs of a subculture and isolating that subculture from the wider culture is a common reason for home schooling and it is usually the main motivation for fundamentalist home schoolers, who DO constitute a majority of home schoolers in much of the country. They also complain about the low quality of education or the moral laxity in public schools but you can tell it is secondary to building their intellectual ghetto.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
20-01-2017, 08:34 AM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2017 08:37 AM by julep.)
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(20-01-2017 07:59 AM)mordant Wrote:  It should be pointed out that it is not just fundamentalist Christians who home school. Others including atheists do it also. There are arguments to be made that public schools (or at least some of them) are not that terrific. I don't necessarily buy them, but I understand the position. My daughter is an atheist but home schools her boys, in large measure because she has a special needs child and he is ill-served by the public schools in her area. In fact she is considering opening a clearing-house and book exchange for home school curricula that are not theist-oriented.

Many non home schoolers are pretty uninformed about, and hold misbeliefs about what is inherent in, home schooling. My grandsons for example are independently tested each year even though their state of residence doesn't require it, and about half their classes are taught by people other than their parents through home school co-ops. And many of those are quite social and team-oriented. My oldest grandson was part of a robotics team last year that won awards at the state level and went on to national competition.

That said, enforcing the norms and beliefs of a subculture and isolating that subculture from the wider culture is a common reason for home schooling and it is usually the main motivation for fundamentalist home schoolers, who DO constitute a majority of home schoolers in much of the country. They also complain about the low quality of education or the moral laxity in public schools but you can tell it is secondary to building their intellectual ghetto.

I recognize that it's true that many home schoolers do so for nonreligious reasons; I was talking specifically about the fundamentalist rationale for doing so. It's my opinion that many fundamentalists don't really want their kids to be educated, they want them to be trained.

I'm lucky to live in a state with generally good public schools. But I grew up in Virginia, where I went to terrible public schools, and still got into a great college, so I don't think that an average or even below average public school is necessarily providing its students with a bad education. Kids and young adults are good at adjusting to higher expectations, once they understand them and buy in to them--at least, that's been my experience teaching college-level students from good public school, bad public school, and private school backgrounds. I haven't taught any home-schooled students.

If I'd been home-schooled, I would have loathed it. I treasured school because it was a place where I could escape my family.

Also, P.S.: good on your daughter. I have a special needs child, and fortunately we had a good SPED program at our public schools. He's off to his second semester as a college freshman this weekend, thanks to his hard work and the hard work of many wonderful people in our school system. I hope your daughter is able to find good supports and education for your grandson!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like julep's post
20-01-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(20-01-2017 08:34 AM)julep Wrote:  It's my opinion that many fundamentalists don't really want their kids to be educated, they want them to be trained.

That is a very succinct assessment that I think is spot on.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
20-01-2017, 09:18 AM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(20-01-2017 08:34 AM)julep Wrote:  It's my opinion that many fundamentalists don't really want their kids to be educated, they want them to be trained.
Yes, absolutely. "TRAIN up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it" is one of the forlorn promises offered to the faithful, which is in no way more likely to come true because they believe it -- or to be optimal or effective or in the best interests of the child, for that matter.
(20-01-2017 08:34 AM)julep Wrote:  Also, P.S.: good on your daughter. I have a special needs child, and fortunately we had a good SPED program at our public schools. He's off to his second semester as a college freshman this weekend, thanks to his hard work and the hard work of many wonderful people in our school system. I hope your daughter is able to find good supports and education for your grandson!
She is in a Bible Belt state that under-funds and has no real enthusiasm for such programs. In her shoes I would rather uproot the family and relocate someplace with good programs than try to go it alone; like you, I see the value in public education done right. But it is her needle to thread, and I admit, she's handling it responsibly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
20-01-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: Christian Fundamentalism is Mutating
(20-01-2017 07:59 AM)mordant Wrote:  It should be pointed out that it is not just fundamentalist Christians who home school. Others including atheists do it also. There are arguments to be made that public schools (or at least some of them) are not that terrific.

I have to admit that if I had school-aged children, I would much prefer to take a hand's-on approach to their schooling, through travel and experiences, rather than having them stuffed in a classroom with 30+ other snot-nosed little rats and an overpaid teacher who only got into teaching because she knew she'd get lots of time off and an indexed pension.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: