Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
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28-06-2011, 06:21 AM
Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
A few days ago, I was doing some reading on some naval attacks, specifically, attacks after world war 2 that were directed at us (the US) from other countries. One thing I learned about, in greater detail was the USS Liberty. This intelligence ship was attacked by Israel June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. This ship was in international waters but the Israeli government decided to say it was a mistake, even though the crew all say they had /visual/ displays of American flags et al. Well, to skip through the crew statements, it appears the US government, in cooperation with Israeli government decided to cover it up. I guess it's because Egypt and Israel at the time had similar fighter jets, so if Israel sunk the ship they could blame it on Egypt and drag us into that war. One thing about it is there was no investigation by congress. None at all. I guess they weren't investigated because of their 'promised land' nonsense that we should let them get away with murder at the expense of religious bullshit.

Anyways, today I was also reading some other interesting information on Israel, specifically, the book "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" which I recommend to anyone curious about how a 3rd world country has so much influence into the US government because of some biblical fairytale crap. Some notes on the book:

- We give almost $4 billion a year to them without asking where it goes. $4 billion a year could probably improve our education here in this country ever so slightly.
- By 1982, the US has vetoed 42 Security Council resolutions that were critical of Israel and/or their policies.
- The Israeli lobby monitors major newspapers for any comments that are critical of their policies and 'deals' with them in whatever manner

The post above isn't anti-Semitic. I am just sick and tired of my country being ran by people with imaginary friends in the sky, who are promised eternal life by giving a nation money and allow influence here to change votes, because of a 2000 year old bronze age book that says said country's population is the chosen people.

Now, with all that being said, The 'Christians' in this country, the crazy ones, support Israel no matter what. If Israel wanted us to send them 300 nuclear tipped ICBMs, I'm sure they would get them, no questions asked, because of our 'christian' politicians who are stupid.

I am a constitutionalist. I support the constitution of our country and I swore an oath to uphold it. I, however, did not swear an oath to support a 3rd world country and manipulates my countries policies because of religious nonsense. We have our own problems, we don't need to worry about other people's stuff.

This is shocking, isn't it?
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28-06-2011, 06:34 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
I already knew about some of this, thanks for the book info. I've never been able to accept the harsh degree of support the US gives to Israel. I heard about enough of it when I was around 12 as I knew some people who had family there and was around some of the political stuff. I've never seen much reason for the amount of support offered. Israel does a lot of innovations thanks to a large amount of support, but those things could happen here as well.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-06-2011, 10:04 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
We (the US) never just give $$$$ away... we get "something" in return.... I agree with a lot of what you say... Israel has the largest lobby in the US... But I am pretty sure the $$$ purchases something... influence... they do our dirty work... etc The US never just gives $$$ away...

“We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.” Orson Welles
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29-06-2011, 05:47 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
I feel sorry for Israel in a way.. being surrounded by countries full of people that mostly want them all dead.

(28-06-2011 06:21 AM)Monk Wrote:  If Israel wanted us to send them 300 nuclear tipped ICBMs, I'm sure they would get them, no questions asked, because of our 'christian' politicians who are stupid.

Israel has plenty of nukes already, along with the capabilities to deliver them. Israel is space capable so they have icbm's and the technology needed to build them.
Wikipedia - Jericho_missile Wrote:It is estimated that the Jericho III entered service in 2008. The Jericho III is believed to have a three-stage solid propellant and a payload of 1,000 to 1,300 kg. It is possible for the missile to be equipped with a single 750 kg nuclear warhead or two or three low yield MIRV warheads. It has an estimated launch weight of 30,000 kg and a length of 15.5 m with a width of 1.56 m. It may be similar to an upgraded and re-designed Shavit space launch vehicle, produced by Israel Aerospace Industries. It probably has longer first and second-stage motors. It is estimated that it has a range of 4,800 to 11,500 km (2,982 to 7,180 miles), and probably significantly greater with a smaller payload of 350 kg (the size of one smaller Israeli nuclear warhead). It is believed that the Jericho 3 is inertial guided with a radar guided warhead and silo-based with mobile vehicle and railcar capabilities.
According to an official report which was submitted to the American congress in 2004, it may be that with a payload of 1,000 kg the Jericho III gives Israel nuclear strike capabilities within the entire Middle East, Africa, Europe, Asia and almost all parts of North America, as well as within large parts of South America and North Oceania. The range of the Jericho III also provides an extremely high impact speed for nearby targets, enabling it to avoid any ballistic missile defenses that may develop in the immediate region. On 17 January 2008 Israel test fired a multi-stage ballistic missile believed to be of the Jericho III type reportedly capable of carrying "conventional or non conventional warheads."

It's Pakistan and Iran that have the more primitive delivery systems (which is a good thing). If it came down to all out war it's likely nukes would be used... and allot of former desert/cities would be burnt to a sheet of glass (Samson Option). So lets hope this religion crap disappears quickly enough so all this nonsense about holy cities, chosen people, and Jew hating is just forgotten.

Wikipedia - Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction Wrote:Although no official statistics exist, it has been estimated that Israel possesses from 75 to as many as 400 nuclear weapons, which are reported to include thermonuclear weapons in the megaton range. Israel is also reported to possess a wide range of different systems, including neutron bombs, tactical nuclear weapons, and suitcase nukes. Delivery mechanisms include Jericho intercontinental ballistic missiles, with a range of 11,500 km, and which are believed to provide an underground second-strike option. Additionally, Israel is believed to have an offshore nuclear second-strike capability, using submarine launched nuclear-capable cruise missiles.

I know allot of people say what is happening there is political, though it still seems to me like religion is still at the heart of the politics and the people that elect the politicians (on all sides). Why else be surrounded and outnumbered by so many people that want you dead? I'd want to relocate the whole state. It would be fun watching the Islamic countries killing each other over ownership of the vacated land. I say put cameras all over Israel before leaving and put the footage on reality tv.

It would be a fun experiment.. Would the middle east still be a war zone without Israel? I'd say it would - since the religion of peace turns on itself if it doesn't have some Jews to hate. I suppose everything is peaceful once everyone dies. Am I judging Islam too harshly?

I enjoyed reading about Stuxnet. That was a very entertaining read and a brilliant way to delay Iran's nuclear weapons program.

And don't take my opinion on this this stuff too seriously, I don't follow world politics or the goings on in the middle east closely so I probably said an uninformed bunch of crap.. Never mind.. This represents part of my current opinion/limited understanding.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-06-2011, 06:59 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
The US never gives anything away? Plenty of money goes towards reparations for past mistakes. If you want the reason that Israel has such a strong influence it goes back to WW2. After the defeat of Hitler the allies helped the Jews reclaim their holy land stating that it was their home. They were aware of the mess it was going to cause so they helped fund them to get them set up, and they continue to fund them non-stop. The idea of the backing really is, because if Israel doesn't get support it's dead. I don't think we need to support Israel as much as we do though. I would think by now most people would realize Israel is very technologically advanced. In the 90's at least they were a big country in computer technology. I'm not sure about more recently.

You can't define a country by such rules as that every child has to spend 2 years in the military when they come of age. That's an answer to the situation. And yes, they can do some really radical stuff, but plenty of US citizens are overly radical.

The war in the middle east is so old that no one really cares why anymore. It's just an inborn hate now. Things are starting to improve on that, but it's hard to stop radical thinking when you're in a war zone.

I just think the country gets more than is necessary to protect it.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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29-06-2011, 07:14 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
(29-06-2011 06:59 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  The US never gives anything away? Plenty of money goes towards reparations for past mistakes.

Yeah, and I guess there is the trillion dollar bailout. Though I'm pretty sure the US has something to gain from helping out Israel. 4 billion sounds like allot and there must be some form of benefit coming from all that.

Is there some benefit to keeping the Middle East in a perpetual war?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-06-2011, 07:44 AM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
The perpetual war used to help in the oil campaign. They would use the war zone mentality of everyone there to leverage getting cheap oil, but eventually the people of the middle east realized what was going on. It's been a while since the rest of the world has poured fuel on the fire there. I think it was around '94 where the oil manipulation game kinda fizzled and they really turned to trying to stop it. It's still a great market for arms, but that just isn't as profitable as oil.

This should be pretty obvious as the US and Britain have many times instilled rebels as the new leaders of middle eastern countries in hopes to get cheaper oil (other countries have as well, but not as often).

After WW2 though the main thing that happened was all the Palestinians started bumming around everywhere. Remember hurricane Katrina? How everyone got kind of sick of the fact that people from New Orleans were all moved to other areas and generally just sat and waited for things to get better? It never got better for the Palestinians. and they've fueled the fire against Israel heavily. This is why there is such a focus on helping them have rights to their own land. Hopefully if they stop complaining the area will simmer down a bit.

It is very much seen as a religious war, but in actuality that's just the justification for a war that had no real determinable start and has no reason now. The peace efforts by muslims and jews who travel together spreading living in peace though are actually pretty effective.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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29-06-2011, 06:34 PM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
Thanks Lilith, that actually makes allot of sense.

I suppose it will take time to change the minds and attitudes of so many people. It's anyone's guess what the future will hold for that part of the world!

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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29-06-2011, 09:57 PM
RE: Christian/Israel Influence in US foreign policy
(29-06-2011 06:34 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  Thanks Lilith, that actually makes allot of sense.

I suppose it will take time to change the minds and attitudes of so many people. It's anyone's guess what the future will hold for that part of the world!

I knew they had nukes, but if they wanted more, they could ask and they'd get them. No questions asked.

All of our problems stem from the middle east and that little strip of land. Ugh.
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