Christian Misogyny
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12-02-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 02:28 PM)alpha male Wrote:  No, my boss is not in charge whether I like it or not. When I don't like my boss, I quit and move on. I could start my own business, but IMO it's better to be high up but not at the top. The guys at the top are always in the office, whereas I get lots of free time outside of our busy season (right now unfortunately). No one forced my wife to marry me. In fact, her father was so kind as to point out that she could still change her mind on the morning of our wedding day. Some women actually like being taken care of by a strong man.

Your boss is in charge, but yes, you may leave. I think we both know that is an option for most situations, although you have to deal with the consequences. It's also a slightly misaligned analogy, as you probably weren't told since childhood that you'd burn in hell if you ever quit your job. You also aren't being told that you won't ever be in charge.

(12-02-2014 02:28 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Except...it's a choice to be part of the religion.

I'd be interested in knowing how many people chose their religion, vs being thrust into it. I don't see a lot of child apostates...

(12-02-2014 02:28 PM)alpha male Wrote:  OK, now you're recognizing that it's a choice to follow the religion. Enough said.

I don't disagree, but definitely not enough said. You make it much simpler than it is. That's kinda like saying "It's a choice to live in [insert unpleasant country here]." It's not like you simply make an A or B decision and move on. The psychological effects of indoctrination are well-documented. Ignore them if you wish. I won't.

(12-02-2014 02:28 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Plenty of you guys have rejected the religious things you've been told since childhood.

Again, not as easy as you think. Not everyone can relate to what it's like to overcome indoctrination from a particular belief system.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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12-02-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
Someone who is truly indoctrinated doesn't have a problem with the situation.
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12-02-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
What about what is says in 1 Timothy and elsewhere in scripture that women cannot hold authority in church, over the husband, cannot teach, must get word of God only through husband, must cover head and not speak in church...and so on? I mean is this to be carried out in a modern christian household?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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12-02-2014, 04:02 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 03:59 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  What about what is says in 1 Timothy and elsewhere in scripture that women cannot hold authority in church, over the husband, cannot teach, must get word of God only through husband, must cover head and not speak in church...and so on? I mean is this to be carried out in a modern christian household?
Rules regarding behavior in church don't apply to the household, modern or otherwise.
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12-02-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 04:02 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 03:59 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  What about what is says in 1 Timothy and elsewhere in scripture that women cannot hold authority in church, over the husband, cannot teach, must get word of God only through husband, must cover head and not speak in church...and so on? I mean is this to be carried out in a modern christian household?
Rules regarding behavior in church don't apply to the household, modern or otherwise.

OK, you know what answers I am looking for but if dodging is the game then fine. How about in a modern Christian FAMILY? Is it desired for the wife to be submissive in the home and when the FAMILY is in church? I know you can stand by your faith and also be honest, so what is your opinion on how women are overall viewed throughout the Bible? And how virgins are depicted?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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12-02-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 03:41 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 03:25 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  The whole playing to strengths thing and deligation thing is reasonable(ish) in practice. To clarify and why I say (ish) is because, to deligate, assumes 'authority',
Which we've already agreed is fine if the person under authority accepts it voluntarily.
Quote:in the first place and as I said in my previous post, just for the privilege of having tackle the guy can pull the plug.
Same point as above, plus the already made point that the man is told to love, nourish and cherish the wife, so he cannot arbitrarily do things detrimental to her.
Quote:It is those 2 specific things I am stating are unfair.
And they were already addressed.
Quote:Actually, I also concede you the point that a woman can leave freely. However, if she is sincere in her religious beliefs, from her perspective, it would be more like 'if you don't like the doctrine you can leave' but with the subtext, 'if you leave you're gonna fry'. ...
A sincere believer would have the viewpoint 'if I endure I will be rewarded.'
Quote:Also, I'm aware of your 'audience', and your track record for being confrontational, I've read enough of the threads that you post on to know that. As I'm sure you're equally aware of my propensity to be arsey when it suits...
Sorry, no, not really. So far you're cool. We've had a whole discussion and you haven't called me intellectually dishonest. Lots of people here spew that one at the drop of a hat.
Quote:With that in mind, I wish to point out that you and I have not had a run in and you were one of, if not the first person to welcome me to the forum Thumbsup
Really? I don't recall welcoming anyone, but who knows. Although technically this stuff could be around a long time, practically once it hits page two it's dead.
Quote:so I don't see you as a 'bad guy'. I just happen to disagree with you on nearly everything hahaha. ...
You're a throwback to the good old days. When I started doing this 15 years ago, we could sling insults all day, and yet still not see each other as bad guys. That spirit has largely been lost. Your attitude is refreshing. Thumbsup
Quote:So please remember, your 'audience' may indeed be your mortal enemy! But, it could be worse, ... your father in law might start posting! Big Grin
He likes me now. Also note that I didn't say that his comment was unwarranted - I was a mess back then.

The culture I'm from, insult slinging amongst friends is mandatory! I don't think you're dishonest, you seem sincere in your beliefs. Infurating yeah, dishonest no. I asked for a theists perspective on the whole mans authority thing and you have answered. We clearly won't and don't agree on it but I asked, which is why it is civil! You're cool with me for a deluded theist prick Tongue (see what I did there) ... thanks for answering my questions, I look forward to some enlightening conversation and insult slinging in the future! Thumbsup

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

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12-02-2014, 04:42 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 04:34 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 04:02 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Rules regarding behavior in church don't apply to the household, modern or otherwise.

OK, you know what answers I am looking for but if dodging is the game then fine. How about in a modern Christian FAMILY? Is it desired for the wife to be submissive in the home and when the FAMILY is in church? I know you can stand by your faith and also be honest, so what is your opinion on how women are overall viewed throughout the Bible? And how virgins are depicted?
husband and wife are equal partners with different responsibilities.
God looked at His daughters and saw them capable of doing many things. Then He looked at His sons and said:"Let me give them priesthood. I hope at least this they can do."

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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12-02-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 04:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 04:34 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  OK, you know what answers I am looking for but if dodging is the game then fine. How about in a modern Christian FAMILY? Is it desired for the wife to be submissive in the home and when the FAMILY is in church? I know you can stand by your faith and also be honest, so what is your opinion on how women are overall viewed throughout the Bible? And how virgins are depicted?
husband and wife are equal partners with different responsibilities.
God looked at His daughters and saw them capable of doing many things. Then He looked at His sons and said:"Let me give them priesthood. I hope at least this they can do."

Your being dishonest if you infer that the Bible declares men and women as equals on any grounds. Do you possess any individual thoughts or feelings aside from what is preached so damn hard into your head?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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12-02-2014, 04:58 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 04:53 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Your being dishonest if you infer that the Bible declares men and women as equals on any grounds.
Bible doesn't declare that husband and wife have different rights. But it does declare that they have different responsibilities.

(12-02-2014 04:53 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Do you possess any individual thoughts or feelings aside from what is preached so damn hard into your head?
My observation: God (for some people Nature) gave to men and women equal rights. But different responsibilities.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
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12-02-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: Christian Misogyny
(12-02-2014 03:52 PM)alpha male Wrote:  Someone who is truly indoctrinated doesn't have a problem with the situation.

Then I guess debating this topic with you is kinda pointless... Tongue

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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