Christian Vs Atheist debate
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03-02-2017, 07:13 AM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2017 11:29 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
We had some personal discussions earlier so I will leave that out.

I'll start copying from here:

Is Jesus dead or alive?

Alive

What did God sacrifice to save us from sin?

His life in the flesh but he is alive in the sprit

So God sacrificed Jesus' skin, but not his soul/spirit then?

Yes the flesh is what have 2 dead

It's just that I don't see how anyone can conclude that God sacrificed Jesus & still say Jesus is alive. It's very contradictory. If you cut off your son's finger does it mean you sacrificed your son or just his finger?
(Note: I was trying to get him to say "all of Jesus was sacrificed & not just his finger", then I would ask if the spirit of Jesus is not part of Jesus.)

Ok will tell you about y the flesh had a 2 b sacrificed hope you understand

What's so special about Jesus losing this physical body? Being a God in the spirit form trumps being Human any day. I would say God did him a favor. Honestly & logically speaking. It's not much of a sacrifice if God never lost his son. Sure Jesus felt some pain & shed his physical body for a spiritual one but that could hardly qualify as a sacrifice. I mean let's be honest here.

Hope 1 day that you will understand Jesus and get save If you don't I a sorry for you but I will pay for

Get saved from what?

The world of God say that if you sek him you will have understand of him if you don't you will never have. That y you don't understand.
(Note: It's a cop out. This is normally where the Christian leaves the debate. Let's see if I can get him to continue.)

What do you mean by Seek? These questions I ask are for me to try to understand your God. I am "seeking" to understand your God therefore I should be able to understand right?

NLT Bible. Jeremiah 29:13-14
[13]If you look for me wholeheartedly, you will find me.
[14]I will be found by you,” says the lord. “I will end your captivity and restore your fortunes. I will gather you out of the nations where I sent you and will bring you home again to your own land.”


You made two claims. You said if you seek you shall find. The verse above affirms this. The 2nd claim you made says if you don't seek God you will never find him. Where does the Bible say this? Have you never found something but you didn't set out looking for it?

We are talking of God not something

God is something or would you rather I say God is nothing? You have not shown me anything from the bible about not being able to find god if you don't look for him. It's illogical to say we cannot find something just because we didn't look for it. There are many examples of us finding stuff we don't look for. Where did you get this belief if it's not supported in the Bible or real life?

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

You quoted Proverbs 3:5. Can you read 1 Thessalonians 5:21? It says "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I am asking you to PROVE to me that the Lord said we cannot understand him if we don't believe in him first. I'm not relying on my own understanding here nor yours. I'm relying on your Bible. Proverbs 3:5 does not say: Trust in the CHURCH/PASTOR with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." If you are going to make claims like "believe in God first or you will never understand" at least back it up with a Biblical verse.
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05-02-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
NLT Bible. John 5:37-42
[37]And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face,
[38]and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you.
[39]“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
[40]Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
[41]“Your approval means nothing to me,
[42]because I know you don’t have God’s love within you.


That verse does not say anything along the lines of "if you don't believe first you can never understand God."
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05-02-2017, 06:15 PM
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
The only way your friend can use the bible as evidence for his belief system is to first prove there is a God, who either wrote or inspired the bible, then that all of that information was copied down error-free and has not been changed in the intervening years. (There are a number of other requirements that must be satisfied first - I posted about that here - but these are a good place to start.)

Only then will using the bible have any veracity as evidence of a claim. Until all those conventions are satisfied, the bible must be considered invalid.
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23-02-2017, 12:16 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 12:38 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
(05-02-2017 06:15 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  The only way your friend can use the bible as evidence for his belief system is to first prove there is a God, who either wrote or inspired the bible, then that all of that information was copied down error-free and has not been changed in the intervening years. (There are a number of other requirements that must be satisfied first - I posted about that here - but these are a good place to start.)

Only then will using the bible have any veracity as evidence of a claim. Until all those conventions are satisfied, the bible must be considered invalid.

He doesn't use the Bible as evidence for the existence of God. For that he uses his personal experiences.
He uses his Bible as evidence for what his deity requires of him.
He thinks, "Personal Experiences" are the best form of evidence anyone can get.
I tend to agree with this. It does not make the conclusion (that God exists) necessarily true however what better way to confirm your belief in something than to experience it first hand.

I'm not going to argue that he was somehow deceived when his life suddenly got better the instant he started believing in his God.

Instead i had asked:
"If your life suddenly took a turn for the worst would that change the way you think about God?"
He spent the next few replies explaining that his life will never, never, never, never... get worst once he is a true believer.
I counter argued that with "Did God tell you that or did you just make that up?"
He said his God promised him this.
I counter argued that with "Do you know what is best for God or does God know what is best for you?"
He said he didn't understand the question. I then explained that what he thinks is worst might be what his God thinks is best.
He was shocked at the concept but claimed that bad things are the devil's doing.
Again I asked "Bad for who?"
I pointed out that the way he thinks, he is just blaming God when he gets what he wants in life & blaming the devil when things don't go his way.
He said "So what?"
I said "There are reasons for everything if you look good enough, your just being lazy man"

This debate I am having with him started because he kept spamming me his beliefs.
When i pointed out that I don't share his beliefs because my personal experiences have led me to believe otherwise it kinda stalemates the debate.

It's damn near impossible to prove to a strong believer that their God does not exist, however it is possible to prove to them that their understanding of their deity is logically flawed based on their scriptures & teachings.
This is what creates the foundation for Religious Debates.

If I said I love my wife, it does not require me to prove that love exist before i show you evidence that I love my wife.
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23-02-2017, 12:36 PM
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
What part do you actually need help with?
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23-02-2017, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 12:57 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Christian Vs Atheist debate
(23-02-2017 12:36 PM)Emma Wrote:  What part do you actually need help with?
The debate has ended I think.
He is being a jerk. I'll post the last few replies here

Quote:NLT Bible. John 5:37-42
[37]And the Father who sent me has testified about me himself. You have never heard his voice or seen him face to face,
[38]and you do not have his message in your hearts, because you do not believe me—the one he sent to you.
[39]“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
[40]Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
[41]“Your approval means nothing to me,
[42]because I know you don’t have God’s love within you.
It does not say if you don't believe first you can never understand God. You made this claim earlier. Where does the bible state that?

He then went on to spam me with unrelated bible verses & other Christian related stuff for the next 2 weeks.

After the 2 weeks I replied:
"Are you going to spam me in the middle of the discussion bro? Not cool."

After that he spammed me for another week absolutely ignoring our discussion.

I replied:
"Stop spamming me please. We were having a conversation and you stopped. If you don't have time to carry on our discussion please don't make the time to spam me."

He never replied but continued to spam me another week

I replied:
"Please stop spamming me. If you wish to communicate with me please pick up where our conversation left off. What you are doing is inconsiderate"

He didn't reply again but went on spamming for 2 more days

I then wrote:
"Sorry bro I'm going to block you. You are being a jerk"

He finally replied:
Quote:Ok hope you an pray you get save 1 day.
You have my number when ever it happen you can tex me will not tex you back"
I'm seriously considering spamming him a bunch of darkmatter2525 videos right about now.
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