Christian incarnation and atonement
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-04-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: Christian incarnation and atonement
interesting stuff, I love the information I get exposed to here Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2014, 06:23 PM
RE: Christian incarnation and atonement
(14-04-2014 03:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-04-2014 11:35 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Re "If you get the difference of Mithraism/Zoroastrian "spiritual purification" from Hebrew "ritual purification" you see exactly where he got it." Hey Bucky, could you elaborate on this or provide a link?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm
https://archive.org/details/paganchristsstud00robe
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2309664/Pagan-...-Robertson

I'm not trying to assert or get into the debate that Roman Mithraism WAS Zorosastrianism, but the concept of "spiritual purification" was more in line with Paul's concepts. Read Acts 21: 15-26. Food, ("blood from strangled animals") was a big part of their fight, it seems. They were ALL very much still involved in Jewish ritual ("external-ritual" purification customs). Zoroastrian purification was more involved and nuanced. It seems Paul HAD a more nuanced (Zoroastrian) view of "spiritual purification" than the Jews he was fighting with had.
http://www.rafimetz.com/borndigital/tarsus.htm
http://heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrian.../index.htm
http://www.pauls-post-crucifixion-temple...emple.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=UakCAAA...us&f=false
https://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL.../zoro.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=8R9VAAA...on&f=false
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_the_dead

Thanks for the links...I will check them out
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-04-2014, 08:08 PM
RE: Christian incarnation and atonement
The trinity notion (3CE) really muddied the waters, what with Jesus gaining an equal share of the Godhead, despite no clear biblical data expressing such.
Tertullian was one of the first church fathers to promote the notion, while earlier the Marcionites would have gotten rid of the Father(Yahweh) all together, opting for a 'higher god'...........
It is rather implausible to hold,via the trinity, that God sacrificed Himself, to save his original creation. But then again, if Jesus was simply a very good man, it seems a bit on the nose too.
Some Christian churches opt for this latter scenario, the Jehovahs Witnesses holding that Jesus was in fact the archangel Gabriel.....
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mr Woof's post
14-04-2014, 08:31 PM
RE: Christian incarnation and atonement
(14-04-2014 08:08 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The trinity notion (3CE) really muddied the waters, what with Jesus gaining an equal share of the Godhead, despite no clear biblical data expressing such.
Tertullian was one of the first church fathers to promote the notion, while earlier the Marcionites would have gotten rid of the Father(Yahweh) all together, opting for a 'higher god'...........
It is rather implausible to hold,via the trinity, that God sacrificed Himself, to save his original creation. But then again, if Jesus was simply a very good man, it seems a bit on the nose too.
Some Christian churches opt for this latter scenario, the Jehovahs Witnesses holding that Jesus was in fact the archangel Gabriel.....

Bart Ehrman has a new book out called "How Jesus became a god ... the exaltation of a Jewish preacher from Galilee". It talks about the convoluted path to the "trinity". If you have nothing better to do, you can actually read the proceedings of the Council of Nicaea .. where the "doctrine" was codified, (in a certain way .. not that there was no arguing about it later).
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/nicea1.txt
Dr. Bernard Brandon Scott's book "The Trouble with Resurrection" agrees with Ehrman's points, (but I find more nuanced). Scott is a very liberal Christian. I have a great deal of respect for his scholarship.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
17-04-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: Christian incarnation and atonement
(14-04-2014 08:08 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  The trinity notion (3CE) really muddied the waters, what with Jesus gaining an equal share of the Godhead, despite no clear biblical data expressing such.
Tertullian was one of the first church fathers to promote the notion, while earlier the Marcionites would have gotten rid of the Father(Yahweh) all together, opting for a 'higher god'...........
It is rather implausible to hold,via the trinity, that God sacrificed Himself, to save his original creation. But then again, if Jesus was simply a very good man, it seems a bit on the nose too.
Some Christian churches opt for this latter scenario, the Jehovahs Witnesses holding that Jesus was in fact the archangel Gabriel.....

yeah it is a bit hard to swallow as a thinking person that "god" discovered his little creations weren't playing the way he wanted, and so he destroyed them all except 8, then later on he divides himself (Triune god) and sends part of himself down, knowing he was going to die to "atone" for man's sins, thus granting them access with the appropriate amount of lifelong groveling to enter his "heaven". So you killed part of yourself, resurrected it, and rose it back to heaven to sit beside you, to atone for man's sins, so that you would be appeased...seems a bit...much.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: