Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
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03-08-2012, 01:27 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
Contradicting 1 I mean. Jeez. Can't even count these days...
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03-08-2012, 01:29 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 01:09 PM)Vosur Wrote:  You have yet to show how this is true. Drinking Beverage What's the causal relationship between being infinite and being omnipotence and omniscience?

Omnipotence - a never ending power. Absolute in power.
Omniscience - a never ending knowledge. Absolute in knowledge.

Infinite - never ending. An absolute.

In Christian theology, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. These are three words that further define infinite.
om·nip·o·tent [om-nip-uh-tuhnt]
adjective
1.
almighty or infinite in power
2.
having very great or unlimited authority or power.

om·nis·cient [om-nish-uhnt]
adjective
1.
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

om·ni·pres·ent [om-nuh-prez-uhnt]
adjective
1.
present everywhere at the same time

None of these attributes require infinity, hence the or.

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03-08-2012, 01:41 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite, without beginning,...

You realize, you're just making this shit up, right? Mental masturbation. NO EVIDENCE.Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-08-2012, 01:51 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  Not flawed AFAICT. I think it deserves more attention.

For reference AtotheTheist's argument is this:
1. God is omnipotent. Meaning all powerful.
2. God is omniscient. Meaning he knows the future.

Since God knows the future, can he *change* the future. If he does, then he already knows that he changed it. Therefore he cannot change the future. Therefore God is not all powerful, contradicting 2.

Hope I got that right?

Not quite...

*sigh*

This is the God-rock paradox.

"Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it?"

If yes, then He isn't all powerful.
If no, then He isn't all powerful.

This approach is flawed because the very question changes what omnipotence is. It simply cannot exist. If it does, then it eliminates omnipotence.

When dealing with omnipotence (or any other type of infinity) there can't be an aspect of limits. If there is, then there can't be omnipotence.

So saying:

"Since God knows the future, can he *change* the future. If he does, then he already knows that he changed it. Therefore he cannot change the future. Therefore God is not all powerful, contradicting 2."

is wrong on the ground of a paradox.

Instead, a correct answer would be:

"God knows the future because of His omniscience, and because of His omnipotence He has changed it according to His omniscience. God does not change the future because He has already set it up perfectly. To change the future would be a contradiction to His omnipotence. Omnipotence and Omniscient do not oppose each other, instead they flow together as one and are dependent on each other."

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03-08-2012, 01:54 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:29 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 01:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Omnipotence - a never ending power. Absolute in power.
Omniscience - a never ending knowledge. Absolute in knowledge.

Infinite - never ending. An absolute.

In Christian theology, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. These are three words that further define infinite.
om·nip·o·tent [om-nip-uh-tuhnt]
adjective
1.
almighty or infinite in power
2.
having very great or unlimited authority or power.

om·nis·cient [om-nish-uhnt]
adjective
1.
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

om·ni·pres·ent [om-nuh-prez-uhnt]
adjective
1.
present everywhere at the same time

None of these attributes require infinity, hence the or.

But in Christian theology, there is infinity in each of these.

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03-08-2012, 01:58 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, infinite, without beginning,...

You realize, you're just making this shit up, right? Mental masturbation. NO EVIDENCE.Drinking Beverage

This is according to what is written in the Bible.

But... this isn't what we're arguing, now is it?

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03-08-2012, 01:59 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2012 02:03 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 01:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  Not flawed AFAICT. I think it deserves more attention.

For reference AtotheTheist's argument is this:
1. God is omnipotent. Meaning all powerful.
2. God is omniscient. Meaning he knows the future.

Since God knows the future, can he *change* the future. If he does, then he already knows that he changed it. Therefore he cannot change the future. Therefore God is not all powerful, contradicting 2.

Hope I got that right?

Not quite...

*sigh*

This is the God-rock paradox.

"Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it?"

If yes, then He isn't all powerful.
If no, then He isn't all powerful.

This approach is flawed because the very question changes what omnipotence is. It simply cannot exist. If it does, then it eliminates omnipotence.

When dealing with omnipotence (or any other type of infinity) there can't be an aspect of limits. If there is, then there can't be omnipotence.

So saying:

"Since God knows the future, can he *change* the future. If he does, then he already knows that he changed it. Therefore he cannot change the future. Therefore God is not all powerful, contradicting 2."

is wrong on the ground of a paradox.

Instead, a correct answer would be:

"God knows the future because of His omniscience, and because of His omnipotence He has changed it according to His omniscience. God does not change the future because He has already set it up perfectly. To change the future would be a contradiction to His omnipotence. Omnipotence and Omniscient do not oppose each other, instead they flow together as one and are dependent on each other."

Ummm.... Thanks for refuting your own argument, bro.Thumbsup

Read what you say, and tell me why he CAN'T change the future, remember, god can't change, so says the bible.

GOD CAN'T CHANGE.

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03-08-2012, 02:03 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
Can god create a dildo so big, that he cannot shove it up his own ass?

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03-08-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  But in Christian theology, there is infinity in each of these.
Can you even back this up with the Bible? You're talking about Christian theology after all. Then again, it's completely irrelevant in this discussions because the definition of these words is not subject to religious interpretations.

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03-08-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 01:59 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 01:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Not quite...

*sigh*

This is the God-rock paradox.

"Can God create a rock so heavy He cannot lift it?"

If yes, then He isn't all powerful.
If no, then He isn't all powerful.

This approach is flawed because the very question changes what omnipotence is. It simply cannot exist. If it does, then it eliminates omnipotence.

When dealing with omnipotence (or any other type of infinity) there can't be an aspect of limits. If there is, then there can't be omnipotence.

So saying:

"Since God knows the future, can he *change* the future. If he does, then he already knows that he changed it. Therefore he cannot change the future. Therefore God is not all powerful, contradicting 2."

is wrong on the ground of a paradox.

Instead, a correct answer would be:

"God knows the future because of His omniscience, and because of His omnipotence He has changed it according to His omniscience. God does not change the future because He has already set it up perfectly. To change the future would be a contradiction to His omnipotence. Omnipotence and Omniscient do not oppose each other, instead they flow together as one and are dependent on each other."

Ummm.... Thanks for refuting his own argument, bro.Thumbsup

Read what you say, and tell me why he CAN'T change the future, remember, god can't change, so says the bible.

GOD CAN'T CHANGE.

I never said God changed anything that He did. He set it up perfectly. Any change would be a contradiction to His infinite being. The original "change" mentioned was that of His creation of all from the beginning of infinity (sic). His omnipotence is because of His omniscient and His omniscience is because of His omnipotence.

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