Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
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02-08-2012, 11:39 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 11:23 AM)Vosur Wrote:  If both the OT and the NT are what god wants and the two of them are different, then logically we can concldue that "what god wants" has changed ever since Jesus came. Since, according to the Bible, god does not change, god refutes his own existence and therefore doesn't exist. qed

Omniscience is knowing all - past, present, and future

If God is omniscient, then no, it's not Him changing. This was His decision from the beginning of infinity (sic).

KC, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You can't seem to see that your statement makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you or other deluded believers.

Playing logic and word games is not critical thinking.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-08-2012, 11:40 AM (This post was last modified: 02-08-2012 11:44 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
You do realize the attributes of god logically deny one another?

Aseity

The aseity of God means "God is so independent that he does not need us."[6] It is based on Acts 17:25, where it says that God "is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything" (NIV). This is often related to God's self-existence and his self-sufficiency.
Graciousness

The graciousness of God is a key tenet of Christianity.
Holiness

The holiness of God is that he is separate from sin and incorruptible. Noting the refrain of "Holy, holy, holy" in Isaiah 6:3 and Revelation 4:8, R. C. Sproul points out that "only once in sacred Scripture is an attribute of God elevated to the third degree... The Bible never says that God is love, love, love."[7]
Immanence

The immanence of God refers to him being in the world. It is thus contrasted with his transcendence.
Immutability

Immutability means God cannot change. James 1:17 refers to the "Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows" (NIV).
Impassibility

The doctrine of the impassibility of God is a controversial one. It refers to the inability of God to suffer.
Impeccability

The impeccability of God is closely related to his holiness. It means that he cannot sin.
Incorporeality

The incorporeality or spirituality of God refers to him being a spirit. This is derived from Jesus' statement in John 4:24, "God is spirit." Robert Reymond suggests that it is the fact of his spiritual essence that underlies the second commandment, which prohibits every attempt to fashion an image of him."[8]
Incomprehensibility

The incomprehensibility of God means that he is not able to be fully known. Louis Berkhof states that "the consensus of opinion" through most of church history has been that God is the "Incomprehensible One". Berkhof, however, argues that "in so far as God reveals Himself in His attributes, we also have some knowledge of His Divine Being, though even so our knowledge is subject to human limitations."[9]
Infinity

The infinity of God includes both his eternity and his immensity. Isaiah 40:28 says that "Yahweh is the everlasting God," while Solomon acknowledges in 1 Kings 8:27 that "the heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you". Infinity permeates all other attributes of God: His love is infinite, his powers are infinite...
Jealousy

Exodus 20:5-6, of the Decalogue says, "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments" (NIV). J. I. Packer sees God's jealousy as "zeal to protect a love relationship or to avenge it when broken," thus making it "an aspect of his covenant love for his own people."[10]
"God is love" in Greek on a stele in Mount Nebo.
Love

1 John 4:16 says "God is Love." D. A. Carson speaks of the "difficult doctrine of the love of God," since "when informed Christians talk about the love of God they mean something very different from what is meant in the surrounding culture."[11] Carson distinguishes between the love the Father has for the Son, God's general love for his creation, God's "salvific stance towards his fallen world," his "particular, effectual, selecting love toward his elect," and love that is conditioned on obedience.
Mission

While the mission of God is not traditionally included in this list, David Bosch has argued that "mission is not primarily an activity of the church, but an attribute of God."[12]
Omnibenevolence

The omnibenevolence of God refers to him being "all good". God's goodness encompasses his grace, love, mercy and patience. Also see Thirteen Attributes of Mercy for Old Testament references.
Omnipotence

The omnipotence of God refers to him being "all powerful". C. S. Lewis clarifies this concept: "His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to his power."[13]
Omnipresence

The omnipresence of God refers to him being present everywhere. Berkhof distinguishes between God's immensity and his omnipresence, saying that the former "points to the fact that God transcends all space and is not subject to its limitations," emphasising his transcendence, while the latter denotes that God "fills every part of space with His entire Being," emphasising his immanence.[14] In Psalm 139, David says, "If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there" (Psalm 139:8, NIV).
Omniscience

The omniscience of God refers to him being "all knowing". Berkhof regards the wisdom of God as a "particular aspect of his knowledge."[15] Romans 16:27 speaks about the "only wise God".
Oneness

The oneness of God refers to his being one and only. See Monotheism and also Trinity.
Providence

While the providence of God usually refers to his activity in the world, it also implies his care for the universe, and is thus an attribute. A distinction is usually made between "general providence," which refers to God's continuous upholding the existence and natural order of the universe, and "special providence," which refers to God's extraordinary intervention in the life of people.[16]
Righteousness

The righteousness of God may refer to his holiness, to his justice, or to his saving activity.
Simplicity

The simplicity of God means he is not partly this and partly that, but that whatever he is, he is so entirely. It is thus related to the unity of God.
Sovereignty

The sovereignty of God is similar to his omnipotence and providence, yet it also encompasses his freedom.
The Shield of the Trinity diagram symbolising aspects of the doctrine of the Trinity.
Transcendence

Transcendence is that God is outside space and time, and therefore eternal and unable to be changed by forces within the universe.[17] It is thus closely related to God's immutability, and is contrasted with his immanence.
Trinity

The Trinity of God refers to him being three in one. God is understood to be a unity of Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Veracity

The veracity of God means his truth-telling. Titus 1:2 refers to "God, who does not lie."
Wrath

Moses praises the wrath of God in Exodus 15:7. Later in Deuteronomy 9, after the incident of The Golden Calf, Moses describes how: 'I feared the furious anger of the LORD, which turned him against you, would drive him to destroy you. But again he listened to me.' (9:19) In Psalm 69:24, the psalmist begs God to: 'consume' his enemies 'with your burning anger'.

In the New Testament, Jesus says in John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

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02-08-2012, 11:44 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Omniscience is knowing all - past, present, and future

If God is omniscient, then no, it's not Him changing. This was His decision from the beginning of infinity (sic).

KC, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You can't seem to see that your statement makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you or other deluded believers.

Playing logic and word games is not critical thinking.

The KC strategy is, "it's a metaphor" or "it's not literal"

This way he can abstractly match anything to anything else, with out having to follow the rules of logic.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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02-08-2012, 12:12 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(01-08-2012 08:59 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Perhaps that's why people love christ so much. He must be seen as gods softer side.

Would that make Jesus the anti-viagra for god?

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02-08-2012, 12:24 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  Playing logic and word games is not critical thinking.

^^ Yup.

But there's a long tradition and a whole bunch of things that you need to unlearn before you can appreciate this...

There was one of those Muslim guys on the forum a couple months ago who said that he'd once been one of the Islamic science nutjobs and finally after several years had managed to figure out that he was being systematically lied to.

I think one thing which keeps a lot of people faithful is they simply cannot fathom the staggering scale of the lie... whole organisations, whole societies... and now *I* sound like a nutjob, so I'll shut up Big Grin
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02-08-2012, 03:28 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 11:23 AM)Vosur Wrote:  If both the OT and the NT are what god wants and the two of them are different, then logically we can concldue that "what god wants" has changed ever since Jesus came. Since, according to the Bible, god does not change, god refutes his own existence and therefore doesn't exist. qed

Omniscience is knowing all - past, present, and future

If God is omniscient, then no, it's not Him changing. This was His decision from the beginning of infinity (sic).

Which again, is bullshit.

If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

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02-08-2012, 03:34 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:28 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 11:27 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Omniscience is knowing all - past, present, and future

If God is omniscient, then no, it's not Him changing. This was His decision from the beginning of infinity (sic).

Which again, is bullshit.

If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.

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02-08-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:28 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Which again, is bullshit.

If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.
The fuck?

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02-08-2012, 03:43 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:36 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.
The fuck?

Figured as much.

I'll get back to you later on this.

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02-08-2012, 03:45 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
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